Which Of Rocky's Fights Were Fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 6, 2014.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I've been re-reading "The Sweet Science ",by Joe Liebling,in it he states that Marty Weill the son of Al Weill Rocky's manager.told him that," Rocky fought his brother a few times up around Brockton Mass". I was just wondering if anybody had identified which fights of Rocky's these were?
    I looked at Box rec and found 2 opponents that have similar records, ie none prior or after Marciano and another that has a 0-4 resume The opponents are
    Lee Epperson 185lbs wko3 17th March 1947 0-1-0
    Jimmy Weeks 184.5lbs tko1 30th Aug 1948 0-1-0
    And Gilbert Cardone 189lbs ko1 30 th Sep1948 0-4

    Another opponent Bill Hardeman has some form albeit a losing one and I notice some of the usual suspects on his record ,eg Wade Chancy was in Weill's stable.
    Anyone have any more details?
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm a bit dissapointed Officer.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I read that Rocky boxed his brother in an exhibition.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes that's a matter of record ,Sonny fought under an assumed name ,[Peter Fuller,] that was March 19th 1952 in Lewiston Maine, Sonny was 165lbs and 18 years old, they boxed again on the 22nd in Rumford Maine,and on several more occasions.

    When word got out about Sonny's real identity, Marciano and the promoters were suspended for 30days.

    Marty Weill said Rocky had some real fights against his brother,I'm just trying to pin down what ones they could have been?
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I'm thinking it could only have been before Rocky was high profile which working backward would have been into the 1940s. I think Sonny was a high school kid in 1952 so any earlier can't add up.

    Like all prospects Rocky would have fought some opponents who had horrible credentials early on. I don't doubt a lot would be untraceable. There was a great story about an early Ali opponent who vanished. Late sub who came from a Miami ghetto that nobody could find. No info could be found on what became of him.
     
  7. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    Maybe the story isn't true? If it were, that wouldn't suprise me at all, either.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It don't add up.

    Think about it.

    Sonny marciano was a 165lb 18 year old high school kid in 1952, how heavy and short would Sonny have been at age 13 in 1947? He could have been 100lb and 5'3" with spots.

    Even with a different name What commission could have allowed Any undefeated pro heavyweight fight a small 13 year old boy?
     
  9. heavy_handss

    heavy_handss Guest

    yes, today i am nearly 30 and i weigh 208 pounds,at 18 i weighed 175 pounds and at 13 i weighed around 111 pounds, so yes, it is very probable that sonny at 13 weighed 100 pounds if he weighed 165 natural pounds at 18
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He can't be any of the later "names" because they have verifiable fights with others,so perhaps Weill was getting confused with the exhibitions?
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think Weill was confused but that's not to say odd things did not happen early in any fighters early career. Not just Rocky.

    I think there was a lot of unknown guys using different names. I don't doubt in the early stages of ALL fighters careers funny things happened with quality control. Boxers using other identities was common up to a level. Wasn't he a black guy last time? The expression "the real McCoy" started out as a boxing expression after all.

    Even Fritzie zivic claimed to have taken his brothers place in fights. With no TV who was to know?

    However, Marciano fighting his 13 year old kid brother is a stretch too far.


    Any fighters career only starts to count once he moves into the "known" category. The preliminary circuits is just part of a process on the way to becoming a fighter. All sorts of liberty's are taken in order for a prospects learning process to run super smoothly. Mismatches are still fed to the marketed youngsters and alkways will be. It keeps them busy and covers their expenses.

    It takes more than talent to reach the top.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Mcvey,

    When Marciano retired, boxing experts(including Nat Fleischer)....heavily investigated his professional boxing record to see if it checked out accordingly. There findings were Marciano's record of 49-0 was indeed correct, as were all the opponents he fought.
     
  13. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Was it Burt or JG, or even Henry Hascupp, who said on here that it was well known the rocky fought his brother several times in smokers.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I cant find any evidence to the contrary so I assume Weill was talking about his exhibitions with his brother.
    There is talk that Marciano boxed a pro fight under a different name then continued as an amateur,as far as I know it is just talk.
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He did do that. He fought his pro debut against lee eperson under the name rocky Mack. He did it to make some quick money while saving his amatuer status. He then went back to the amateurs(illegally) and lost a few fights before being banned from national golden gloves because it was discovered he fought a pro fight. Bottom line...Marciano never lost a PRO fight