Is Roy Jones the P4P GOAT?

Here is the deal with the past prime losses.

Yes they do not detract particularly from his body of work, but they do imply that his chin was never the best, even at his absolute peak.

In the minds of many, this explained his assumed reluctance to fight some of the other top names of his era, notably the punchers.


Granted, the reality might be a lot more complex than I am allowing for here.

 

I loved Roy. And had he put his all into fighting everyone he could in his prime, his awesome skills could have made him one of the best of all time by beating the best easily each time out. but he ducked a lot of guys and avoided tough competition and there is no way someone who didn't put out his all and fight the best guys should be top anything. He is in the top 35 ATG, maybe top 30. He didn't commit himself to the sport in his prime enough for anything near the top.

 

No he isn't.

 

Jones was an amazing talent, arguably as good as anyone ability wise since Robinson, but sadly he underachieved.

His Dad was too cautious with him early on. He wasted his prime as a part time Basketball player. A paranoia about going abroad cost him career defining wins. And when he finally was in a competitive bout in his pomp (GriffinI), his temper got the better of him.

 

before Hopkins, Roy had already cleaned out the division on his way up

he then jumped in weight and easily beat Toney who was p4p fighter in the sport

he then jumped again to claim his third championship and make a whipping 11 defenses, which is more than Micheal Stinks had

and with no loss in speed, jumped up yet again and claimed his 4th divsion, easily outclassing the champ just the way he'd done with all the others

too good to be true, but still true nonetheless. greatest body puncher ever with Joe Frazier just behind

a true Sugar Ray if ever there was one!

 

Roy made the impossible look easy

 

Who did he clean out @ 160 ?
McClellan? Reggie Johnson? Steve Collins? Lamar Parks? you must be referring to Thomas Tate

Toney was drained 2 death, this was a Ray Leonard career move.
Jones waited for Toney to be unable making weight anymore, like Leonard waited Hagler 2 get shot and like fighting Hearns exactly on time.

Michael Spinks fought Qawi & Mustafa Muhammad @ 175, Jones did not have such opponents @ 175.
Spinks fought Holmes*2 and entered ring vs Tyson, again more than anything Jones ever did.

Ruiz was not the champ, he was just another titlist. Not even #3.
And I consider Ruiz underrated.

Wins over faded Virgil Hill and 44 years old Hopkins are not enough to make a top 20 body puncher.

Almost like the last "Sugar" before him.
Leonard at least fought Adolfo Viruet, Andy Price & Randy Shields which were at least as much as everything Jones achieved @ 160 & 168 combined.

 

Frankenfrank...

I am not sure whats gotten into you but that rebuttal was excellent especially the part about Michael Spinks.

 

I dont believe this talk that Roy avoided this guy or that guy. who exactly did Roy duck?

Steve Collins? WOuld Steve be favored to whip Roy in the ring? Collins was nothing more than a passing titlist with no real recognizable accomplishments

DM? Julio Gonzalez took care of him

Then we have Hopkins who Roy already beat with a broken hand, something like 9-3 in rounds.

Toney? even easier fight. If James was weight drained, Roy also was weight drained in the Hopkins fight and still won in lopsided fashion

Benn? Nigel was overrated. Sure he was dangerous but dangerous middleweights are dime a dozen. In this case, he picked the right guy and wound up with a title but didnt go far with it as predicted. and that's all it was. I dont see why people get excited over him

as for the middleweight Roy Jones, yes he did clean out the division becuz he beat the next best fighter there Hopkins. Johnson he beat later with ease

In fact, he whipped both Toney AND Johnson with the same ease and dominance.

that's no coincidence. he really was that good. no one could really test him like I said earlier and the way I have assessed him, Roy makes top ten p4p of all time

If someone like Ray Leonard is in those top ten rankings, then we'll jst have to pull that ****** face out of there and replace him with someone better, like Roy Jones

in fact, in the last 60 years, just TWO fighters of recent fame have made it in the top ten; Hagler, who replaced Ali, and Roy who easily replaces Ray Leonard nd honestly, I dont see anyone else coming along to replace Roy who, is a once in a lifetime talent, if that

 

Duran? the guy never beat a great. What a joke. Most overrated fighter in history Jones had speed so you could see how he dazzled top guys like Toney. Duran never did well against great fighters period. Tell me who he did and don't Leonard who fought Duran at his game.

 

You ignored 83% of my replies to you, and managed to reply to a claim I did not make. Yes, I think he ducked Nigel Benn , but that was not at 160. I was only mentioning fighters he ducked @ 160, and probably could have mentioned more if I tried harder.
Roy Jones fighting Reggie Johnson later = Ray Leonard fighting Hagler later.
Roy Jones fought almost everyone later.
Jones fighting Toney when he did = Leonard waiting for Duran to eat himself out of 147before rematching him.
Julio Gonzalez "took care" of Michalczewski only after Michalczewski got worn out. Again, like Ray Leonard did with Hagler.
Jones' career is just on par, give some sometimes , take some sometimes, with Ray Leonard's career.
Jones was drained vs Hopkins, but not as much as Toney was against him.
Did Jones collapse after the weigh in as well?
And again, Jones did not beat Hopkins in their 1st fight.
And barely narrowly outpointing 1 overrated challenger is not cleaning out a division.
Benn might had been dime a dozen, but a dime a dozen fighter was enough to stop Roy Jones. But he dug even deepr to find yet even worse opponents than dime a dozen fighters like Benn @ 168.
Dangerous was what Jones avoided during his prime.
Why not fight shot Jorge Vaca while violating the contract by coming in overweight? stop old former 135 Pazienza @ 168 ?
40 years old former 154 lbs McCallum @ 175 ? 38 years old Malinga ?

If those opponents mattered then Hagler was at the PEAK of his PRIME vs Leonard at a mere 33 or 35 years old @ 1987.
And at least Hagler was not as smaller than Leonard as Pazienza and Vaca were compared to Jones.

And a past prime Steve Collins still mattered more than those whom Jones did fight.

Ray Leonard is nowhere near top 10 P4P OAT, not even near top 10 p4p of fighters born not before 1940, but Jones is somewhere near Leonard, 1 or 2 places above or below him .

 

....Here we go.

This is about Roy Jones Jr. You don't have to try to convince us that Roberto Duran was a bum. We all know it...because we are stupid. We don't know greatness when we see it.

Everyone. Duran is a bum, never fought anyone great, never beat any great fighters.

Now, can we get back to Roy Jones?

 

A head to head rating is what you believe would have happened, if Roy had've fought any fighter, based on his unique skill set that we saw.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Why have you mentioned Rick Frazier exactly?

Roy beat plenty of good fighters with absolute ease, that had done good things before, and who went on to do good things afterwards.

Throughout boxing history, which fighters would you have actually put money on to beat him, from 160-175.

There can't be many.

We know what his capabilities were, and his resume is underrated.

 

He didn't chose Ruiz as the weakest belt holder.

The Holyfield fight was almost made, but Murad Muhammad and Don King got greedy, and in the end, Holyfield signed to fight Toney for less money.

A Tyson fight was scheduled for 2004, before both guys got knocked out.

The other fighters such as Byrd, Sanders, Vitali and Tua etc, were all dangerous fights, what weren't paying the huge money he wanted.

He walked away from a Sanders fight for $10m, because it wasn't enough, after he'd been paid around $15m to fight Ruiz.

Basically, Roy moved to HW at the wrong time.

He gets a lot of criticism for pricing himself out of fights, but at the end of the day, after he'd fought Ruiz, he was a near 35 year old LHW, with 50 fights on his resume.

Any 35 year old LHW would want huge money to remain a HW.

Most LHW's, never mind 35 year old LHW's, would never dream of fighting at HW in today's era.

 

Of course it was special.

Roy was 35, and had fought 50 times.

The only reason it wasn't special was because it was seen as a lacklustre fight.

There's no doubt in my mind that had Roy struggled, and it had been a back and forth, exciting fight, he'd have got a ton of credit for it.

Roy was too good for his own good.

Ruiz wasn't great, but he was a legitimate top ten guy who was effective, and he'd be in today's top ten.

Roy dominated him with ease.

Toney gets huge credit for his win over Jirov.

The only difference is, again Roy's fight was uneventful, and Toney's was great.