Is Wladimir Klitschko a top ten heavyweight alltime?

That about sums it up. :good

Dude's easily top 10 regardless of what happens in his career from here on out.

He'll have, at minimum, the second longest reign in history. He's had the most dominant reign in history- guys can rarely even take rounds off of him, let alone challenge him for the W. He's also been the rare champion that consistently fights his top contenders, doesn't duck or avoid tough styles matchups or southpaws, actively tries to unify, and is still willing to travel. He consistently comes to fights prepared and ready to win.

There simply aren't 10 other HW's in history with that combination of achievement, longevity, and dominance.

 

Even though the Povetkin fight turned me off from being a Wlad fan, that about sums it up. He's not the most entertaining fighter and I don't particularly like his style but he gets results, and at the end of the day, the results have to count for something.

 

Yes, Vlad is really good fighter with skills and power, the best living today by far............

 

If Wlad manages to retire unbeaten from hereon it will be very very difficult to deny him top 10 HW ATG greatness. If he gets knocked out by another random nobody that will certainly support the argument of his critics.

 

His opponents give up out of boredom, lol!

 

While I get the analogy with Sampras it isn't completely accurate due to the quality of the heavyweight division and Sampras of course didn't have a brother to beat half the opposition out there for him then refuse to fight in the grand slam final and share the grand slams victories with.

Sampras played at the highest level the ATP pro circuit, Wlad is fighting in what is generally regarded by the majority as a weak era for the division. It would be like a tennis player dominating the lower ranking ITF men's circuit. Also Wlad had some very embarrassing losses, that would be like Sampras getting knocked out of a grand slam in his physical prime in the first round against a qualifier at 3 grand slams.

William Renshaw would be a better comparison with Wlad. Renshaw has the record number of ITF titles, more than Sampras, Federer and Borg. Renshaw even had a twin brother who he won the men's Wimbledon doubles title with 5 times. So as you can see Renshaw and his brother is a better comparison for Wlad and Vitali. But of course you'll not find Renshaw on any top 10 ATG list.

 

Absolutely not.

Weak era - losses to scrubs - unimpressive safety first performances against low grade HWs compared to the fine tuned athletic ones of the past.

 

Which happens all the time. Becker was kicked out against a nobody in round 2 once. Same with Connors. And these are just from the top of my head.

Losing to nobodies happens to champions all the time, across all sports. It's a matter of probability. Being a champion only gives you a high (or very very high) chance of success against lower ranked opponents. Although it can get very cose, the probability never really reaches 100.00%.

The chess ELO rating is a nice display of winning probability. A chess grandmaster may have an ELO rating of say 2400. A very very very good amateur player would have an ELO rating of 1800. The win probability of the amateur would be 1% (not 0.00%) since the difference in ELO points is about 600.

See http://www.walkofmind.com/programming/chess/elo.htm

The equivalent would be putting in Ali or Louis with a #50 ranked boxer. Out of 100 fights, Ali and Louis would lose 1 fight just randomly. Just by getting in the ring enough times (50+ fights), you will be bound to lose fights -- no matter how "weak" the opposition. This is a product of probability, not of a lack of skill of the champion.

 

If he fought and beat Vitali in his prime I would say he belongs to top 10 easily. But now I would rank him somewhere between 10-20.

 

Leftsmash that you

 

atsch Ridiculous comparison. Can't make a decent arrgument for Wlad within in his own sport so resort to laughable and completely unrelated analogies with other sports.

:deal

 

I defer to your obvious expertise on ******ation.

 

Well put. Great champions with superior talent lose to lessor players all the time. Nagging injury, boredom, impending divorce or just meet a guy who is determined to win and fights above himself on a given day. Wlad has had an incredible run of victories over an incredible span of time. That's why I have him top 5. Only Louis dominated the division longer. Neither Holmes or Louis fought in a division packed with great competition. Ali did and I have him number 1.

 

tennis , yes it happens, by nature of how many matches you play.

but wlad is another case, losing to horrendously poor weaklings repeatedly and being unable to come back and beat them. There is categorically no HW champ, other than bitpart ones who owned it momentarily and weren't really champs, who was that weak.


you can respect Wlad for what he is, great longevity, good approach to training and mindset, great athlete, excellent cherrypicking, good outside the ring image. but don't pretend a guy who is shitscared of a 38 year old nobody retiree who wiped him out in 200 seconds previously, is some great h2h or a top atg. that doesn't happen even in the dreams of atgs.