Liston v Holyfield

Liston late rd TKO, jab and power punches slowly wear Evander down

 

I like Ronnie a lot, but he's talking utter ****. No man on the planet can be 6'0 and weight 295 lbs. in contest trim. Not possible. Not without significant chemical assistance.

 

Yeah, he did. Many times actually, even on his videos.

 

No man can be that size correct & natural-& he was max. 5' 11", 297 for his last Mr. Olympia title 300 for the one after he did not win. This was at very low body fat, not more than ~ 5%, & with the HgH buldging stomach, meaning the actual ORGAN grows.
I was not aware he claimed to be natural, if so that is absurd.

Rib Tickler: I agree with most all you say-besides that Tyson was near 200 by his early teens & I have no indication he used-EXCEPT that you are surprised some say that what B.U. wrote is outrageous.

I am a bit despairing of people's capacity to attend to details frankly.

Once Again, with Feeling:

I wrote, many times, that establishing that many cheat & giving examples does NOT show that all, or 95% cheat. And B,U. kept referring to the 95% he backed down to. I do not know how many more ways to say it, folks need to exercise some intellectual rigor here.

Many cheat. Sometimes crime is very high. Does that mean that even the MAJORITY of folks cheat or MOSt even young men are criminals?!?

Now in some sports it could be, or have been, the majority who used regularly or dabbled. But a non-tested sport which only values muscular size & definition & proportion does not in the slightest way exhibit what percentage of folks break the rules in numerous competitive sports.

Nobody has been denying many cheat, that is not the issue contested. God is in the details. What. Was. Claimed.

Now Bruno? I dunno, but with traning, SOME can get Abe Simon-like shoulders, Abe Simon himself did absent likely much lifting, right? I am only saying that a small % CAN be natural & big-I gave rough limits, Ronnie Coleman would not be within 50 lbs. naturally...

And the waters are muddied when folks used precursor/pro-hormones when most all were legal. And Cratine, ANOTHER substance I do not believe in, which folks take in quantities beyond what can be obtained naturally.

Holyfield/"Evan Fields" clearly used, as per the investigation. Though he was not as big as some can get naturally, & he had no legs. Those who gain a lot of musle quickly when already strong, not just starting lifting, like Bonds, are particularly suspect.

 

Agreed. Holyfield was a manufactured heavyweight -- he wasn't a naturally big man with a big frame. Liston was just a big, strong Arkansas country boy -- he probably never picked up a weight in his life (other than throwing the medicine ball around) -- he was just naturally broad, thick, and strong.

Of course, Holyfield had a great physique and could bench press and squat big numbers, but to me, that's not as impressive as just being strong naturally. And in terms of size, you are right: put both Liston and Holyfield on a desert island (no training, no supplements, no weights), and you'll see plainly who the naturally bigger guy is.

 

No World's Strongest Man has ever won the heavyweight boxing championship of the world. Weight-lifting doesn't necessarily make a good puncher a great puncher, or a mediocre puncher a good puncher. I'm sure Holyfield could out-lift Liston in a weight-lifting competition, but I doubt Evander could outmuscle Liston in the ring.

 

Holyfield was listed as 6'1" throughout his amateur career and well into his professional career. It wasn't until Holyfield jumped up to heavyweight that he magically grew 1 1/2" to 6'2 1/2". Maybe steroids and HGH can make your bones grow after puberty.

 

Liston puts a beating on Holyfield in the early rounds, but Evander weathers the storm, starts landing big shots and ultimately outlasts him.

 

Thanks for the support:good

For me Bruno, Seldon and many others are as 'natural' as Holyfield, Briggs and Botha (who, by the way, was not as ripped as others listed here, despite he's a proven PED user).

I just can't see the reason for them not to use PED's if:
1) It clearly gives you advantages to win the fights
2) Athletes are rarely cought (that's a fact)
3) You can be stronger, better athlete and make far more money
4) Others do it

Okay, if you won't believe me, let's see another comparison

Arnold Szhwarzenegger, great BB, 7 times mr Olympia, with good genetics, was 6'1'' and 225-240 lbs competition weight.

Arnold is a known steroid user since age of 15. He admitted it many times.

Boxer Bruno is 6'3'' and 247 lbs ripped.

So 'clean' boxer has close stats to famous long-time PED user and one of the greatest BB's of all time? Whose main activity was BB, not boxing?

If you believe Bruno might be clean then you must believe in Santa Claus, too.

Same with Briggs. He had 20'' arms when he fought Lyakhovic. The only way drugs-free athlete can reach 20'' arms is if he looks like pig with huge belly. If he's ripped like Briggs, then he clearly uses PED's HGH etc.

Genetic freaks also have limits, and it's not 20'' arms while being ripped. It's no more than 18'' arms. For natural drugs-clean athletes 16'' while being ripped is a VERY GOOD result.

 

I wouldn't trust any modern athlete as far as I could throw them, Schwarzenegger is a dirty lier. I've got his bodybuilding bible and he slams steroids and it's users, the mans a hypocrite!

 

What about Lennox Lewis?? In 1992 at the age of 27 he was 227lbs, 10 years later for the Tyson fight he was 249lb.

That's a hell of lot of weight gain for someone who was a fully fledged adult in 1992, some of it would have been fat but boxers are athletes and for both these fights Lewis would have trained his ass off and would have been in top condition.

Note- in less than 4 year Lewis was 247lb for the Mercer fight, that's 20lb! Makes Holyfield's weight gain look pedestrian!

 

There are loads of athletes in almost every sport that are using PED's today as well as over the past few decades.. But be that as it may, I think its an over applied accusation, which may not pertain to EVERYONE. If Primo Carnera had been around from about the 1990's onward, he'd no doubt have been accused of roid use.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pri...rno%2Fprimo%2520carnera%2F%3Fpage%3D2;500;389

 

If Carnera was around in the 90's and used PED's they would have had to create another weight division.