Is Roy Jones the P4P GOAT?

Sometimes I genuinely wonder if you actually read what you reply to.

First with the while age issue then with this reply.

There is no being led away from the eye test. There are many way to rank fighters. Resume, Domonance, H2H, Eye Test, Accomplishments, Peer regard etc. I'm not saying the eye test is any better then those. I have merely said what my top ten is based on the eye test.

I'm not sure why you are so reluctant posting a list. You said you wanted to debate or challenge mine so I asked you to provide a list more suitable for yourself and the first challenge I make you bang on about reluctance.

I do not have Jones at number 3 for resume. Again I am not sure if you have actually read anything you have replied to. This isn't about giving Jones credit, he isn't even my number 1. I voted against him on the thread.

 

Luf...that is crazy.

I did post a list on the eye test, that you commented on. Remember our conversation about Arguello and Ali. That was only a page back.

BTW, I looked back through the thread saw your resume list. Looks fine. I owe you an apology. I thought you did not have the capability to post make a list based on resume but it looks like I was wrong. Fitz, Robinson, Greb, etc all look good to me.

 

I don't think the pink Cadillac argument is that bad, to be frank.

 

You said you was reluctant to post the list. I ask why?

I'm still not really sure what you're overall point is to be honest mate.

This is a thread about Jones being number 1. I've said no he isn't, I have said if I'm ranking by the eye test he is number 3 (some on here had him as high as number 1).

I'm still not really sure what it is you are debating.

 

I posted my list.

I was reluctant because I do not think it a worth the time of coming up with a list of just how great a fighter looks on film. I think Ricardo "Chapo" Vargas looks better than Willie Pep on film but, I have a hard time ranking him over Willie Pep, even based solely on that criteria, because it does not take into account the level of fighter these men are nor does it take into account the level of opposition they were fighting nor magnitude of the fight. So I was reluctant to post, yet I accepted your challenge, and you commended me on a good list.

I think that should do it for me. I am getting the feeling that this is a dead horse. I would like to offer my resignation from this conversation.

Just in case someone who has not been following this conversation is wonder what my "Eye Test" list was. These are the guys I think consistantly look great.

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You would think that wouldn't you.

 

So your issue was you believe the only thing i was considering was how a fighter looks on film and nothing else.

And you thought this because you missed my post were i said i have other ranking mechanisms as well and listed my resume ranking?

So now that you accept i accept there is more to the sport than just the eye test it has become a dead horse.

I did like your list btw, my only issue was Arguello as I've never considered him that way before.

 

I went to Magaluf on a stag do, and it nearly killed me.

 

lufcrazy,

Keep up the good work.

The criteria that you use, is entirely up to you.

Everyone has different criteria when ranking a guy, and we all share different opinions.

 

frankenfrank,

He had a hard time losing the weight, but he's had weight troubles all throughout his career, yet still had great wins before and after he fought Roy.

Directly after the fight, in the post fight interview, he gave Roy a lot of credit and said that he was moving up to 175. Yet surprisingly, he never mentioned anything about wanting Roy again in the future.

That speaks volumes to me.

Go and read his opinions before he fought Roy.

Don't try and be clever. He scored a TKO and Littles was a good fighter.

Again, as far as I'm concerned, Roy deserved to be DQ'd. But he'd clearly turned the fight around and he Griffin down. My guess is, Griffin knew what was coming, and exaggerated Roy's shots. There's not a doubt in my mind that Roy wouldn't have gone on to win that fight, had he not hit Griffin while he was down, and he'd have waited while he got up. But Griffin was a good fighter, there's no doubt about that.

Again, Roy had turned things around, and was on his way to victory.

What was the scam?

Outpointing Ruiz by three points??

I asked you how many LHW's were queuing up to fight Ruiz in 2002?

James Toney was not a LHW in 2002.

No other LHW in 2002 wanted to go and fight at HW.

How many guys have done it since?

Ruiz wasn't a great HW, but it was still a great win for Roy, all things considered.

What did Barkley do at HW?

Musatafa M?

How many former MW-LHW champ have had success at HW?

A minority.

How many guys over the age of 30 have attempted to fight at HW?

You can only name a handful of fighters off of the top of your head.

You have to respect what Roy did.

It's disrespectful to just rubbish the win by saying Ruiz wasn't great.

Roy was a 34 year old LHW with 50 fights on his resume.

He deserves respect for taking the fight and for the outcome.

What are you talking about?

Roy vs Hopkins from 1993?

Roy clearly won.

I've never heard anyone argue otherwise.

Hopkins himself acknowledges that Roy won.

 

frankenfrank,

You tell me how he avoided danger.

He's still fighting now in the CW division, way past his best at 45.

He started out fighting just above JMW.

How exactly did he just tick over at 175?

He fought Hill, Griffin, Tarver, Harding, Gonzalez, Johnson, Del Valle etc, and HBO went out of their way to try and secure the DM fight.

That's not an example of just ticking over.

Elaborate.

That's right, Roy didn't want to go to Germany. He didn't feel as though he had to be the one to travel.

I can see why.

What do you mean DM wasn't the only one he ducked?

He didn't duck DM.

Liles's age has nothing to do with it. According to HBO and Jack O'Halloran, Liles walked away from a 7 figure fight.

Yet apparently Roy avoided everyone when he was prime.

I never used the word ducked.

I said that he wasn't interested in fighting Roy in the 90's.

He obviously had nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

You're going to have to clarify exactly what you're saying, because this is getting confusing.

Are you saying that in your opinion, Bernard Hopkins won the first fight in 1993?

Yes or no?

 

Toney had very few great wins in his career.
Going anally by points, he lost to Jirov.
I think he badly beat Jirov, but I do not consider points unless I score a fight and even then my final judgement regarding who won is not based on points but more on KDs, fouls and near stoppages.

Foreman gives a lot of credit to Ali as well.
Are you sure Toney never wanted a rematch with Roy @ 175 or above?

I do not need to, since it was

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she sold him for cheap

I confused Littles with Little. Littles was a very shaky professional even if a good amateur.
He had nothing but a jab and fouls.

Or maybe he was on his way to going down and/or running out of gas, so he knew what was coming, so he was that bound to keep Griffin down.

Griffin was rushed into the ring cold without having the time to get his muscles pumped and warm the way fighters usually do before fights.
All was planned by Roy's management of course.

Again, Toney.

James Toney is not bigger than Roy, just fatter.

Toney and Jones were not the first and will not be the last. It is just like every other decorative achievement.

Still, not a real win.
Could have been scored a draw or a Ruiz close decision just as well.

Fought HWs

Eddie Gregory

Did I not just replied about it in my post you quoted?

I respect him enough to bare ranking him over Julio Gonzalez & Clinton Woods.

It is not just that Ruiz was not great, it was also not a real win regardless of Ruiz' quality. When was the last time you watched it in normal speed undisturbed?

And fought like such.
Also 50 fights in Roy's case mean far less than 20 fights in most men's case since he fought such sub par opponents en route to his 50 fights mark.

I give him as much as he deserves.

Maybe if you asked it about the time when I typed it I knew what you ask here.

I already replied about it.
Hopkins' words worth as much as his in ring antics.

 

Cheers man.

I'm going maga in a few week myself.

 

Fought dead former 154 McCallum @ 175
Fought old former 135 Pazienza @ 168
Fought dead 147 Vaca @ 160 while Vaca had to make 154, Roy cheated and came overweight.
Roy never had a single pro fight @ 154.
Fought drained to near death Toney.
Fought a well past it Virgil Hill.
Quite a shell of Merqui Sosa.
Worn Reggie Johnson.
Every time he fought Tarver and Johnson, he was fresher and felt better at 175 than both.
Well past it Thomas Tate.
And a list of bums of course, and not just during his prospect stage.

He likes money. Not a big deal.

This is another post which shows what an idiot you are.
Some know why and some do not. Stay where you are.

This is why I used it as an example of him sticking to a weight because you seemed like dismissing sticking to a weight in your post I quoted.

I did it for nearly 5 years.

Not to a neutral country either.

Both ducked each other, until I learn something new about it.
Michalczewski was the "lineal" for what its worth.

HBO are a very bad source whenever dealing with RJJ
And not just concerning RJJ

He did

ND for me

 

The Ring magazine prior to Jones-Sosa:
heaviest hitter at 175lbs - Merqui Sosa
best chin - Merqui Sosa