Running versus Good Footwork

Willy Pep called what he did running but he threw and landed the entire time he was doing it, Ray Anderson against Bob Foster moved without stopping the entire 15 rounds but without trying to land anything, that's just surviving. Both used very good footwork for different purposes.

 

Very good debate question. My scorecard for the Canelo/Lara was 7/5 Canelo...Agree with the OP that it seemed Lara did not throw enough punches along with the movement. However I have judged fights to the other direction namely Leonard/Hagler...I had Leonard winning by two points (that fight was so close though) But Leonard attempted to throw against Hagler.

With that said, if Lara had attempted to set traps, and with his movement, attempt to walk Canelo into shots then move again, I would have probably scored it for Lara. The basis for good footwork is of coarse twofold...defense, but also setting up your own offense. Lara would only do half the work...he would set up the angle...but would not throw in alot of instances. Maybe Canelo presented a better defense than he anticipated...I don't know. It appeared that those opportunities were there...or that he could have threw, when he had the side angle...His footspeed gave him those chances, he didn't take them.

I don't mind scoring a fight for someone who utilizes movement...but you need to see a plan in action...setting something up, not just delaying or running. Maybe Lara thought Canelo would gas following him?...Who knows?

 

Nice thread, but unfortunately it'll get moved.

 

You'd hope that many at least had a fair gauge, but the percentage who cried "robbery!" apparently only looked at one side of the coin.

I agree that, as challenger (particularly against a walking piggy bank), you have to go beyond the call of duty. Lara simply failed to punctuate his victory and became, to lend a Teddy Atlas phrase, "satisfied with his work." You can't lose yourself and start thinking you've done enough, quite the opposite.

 

the Lou Bizzaro fight was a good example, he ran but was not winning only trying to stay alive. Pep would move and give angle but moved to counter so did Walcott. Quick Tillis ran his ass off in a few fights but was not really picking up points just miles.

Running can not win fights if you are not countering and just looking to avoid exchange. In a recent fight with Ruslin Pro and Chris Algeri, after a bad start the kid Chris got up and landed some good shots and moved when he could. I thought Ruslan edged it because of the harder shots but Chris may have landed more but could have gone either way and a good fight. The Ray Anderson - Bob Foster fight was another fight where Anderson just ran to survive but Benetez -Duran was a case of run and land for Benetez

 

Whitaker was a guy I thought was unfairly accused of running. Whitaker used to move in, out, pivot and sway away from punches, but rarely did he actually disengage with no thought of strategy behind it. Yet, too often he was accused of a being 'runner.'

Virgil Hill was another. Hill used his good feet to move side to side, backwards and utilised the ring well to gain tactical position, but I never saw him blatantly run, not even against Hearns who hit him with some big punches.
He just wasn't terribly offensive-minded but that doesn't mean he was a runner.

Just as an amusing anecdote, as a kid I saw Jimmy Abbott take on a heavyweight named Caiphus Masondo on TV one night.
Hands down, it was the most blatant case of running I have ever seen. In fact, Masondo was so petrified of the hulking Abbott that he looked like a wild, bewildered animal as he darted from one corner of the ring to the next.
He had not the slightest intention of throwing a punch nor had the slightest intention of taking one...

 

I wonder why Bizzaro took the Duran fight at all, I imagine for the pay day as there was no thought of winning a moment of that bout. That was actually running too, one foot going in front of the other, I've never saw the likes of this again. Ray Anderson seemed to go into the Foster bout with a plan but once tagged it went out the window, if it was a dance he could have gone all night. Pernell, Pep, Ali, etc. used footwork to win bouts not survive them.

 

Bernard Taylor against Pedroza. There was no boxing whatsoever there from Taylor. He simply sprinted away from Pedroza the entire fight. He can claim, this many years on, that Pedroza barely laid a glove on him the entire night, but I certainly hope he doesn't do so with too much aplomb. It would be misguided. He did not do himself proud that day.

 

I suppose sometimes you can't blame a guy for running though. I was watching Louis-Pastor earlier and poor Bob was outmatched in every department, except speed of foot. He kept away from Louis most of the fight but I can't blame him.

As a pro, sometimes it's better to take the money and not get hurt. I know to the fans paying to watch a fight he's stinking out the place, but he gets to survive and fight another day without his brains being scrambled.

This is not excusable in title fights, but I do accept that some journeymen types are going to look to survive and take as little punishment as possible. It's their bodies and career on the line, so...

 

Probably one of the quickest ways to start an argument is say "Leonard ...Hagler.."
Some boxers do have a talent for doing nothing more that their opponent but adding a "stylistic Sheen" to that nothing more...to give the impression that they are in charge..and indeed "the plan" is still in place... poor copies of the "Rope-a-Dope" probably qualify I do think that if someone is trying to take your head off...and you are making the hit thin air when clearly in hitting range..than that skill and adroitness in denying the aggressor his intent, should be acknowledged, however it should be put beyond doubt by adopting that old Maxim, " Make em miss...Make em Pay.." the party of the first part is rarely any good on the scorecards..without the party of the second part..

Interestingly the appreciation of Good Footwork is often append to aggressive fighters who are using that good footwork / educated pressure to "Track-to-Whack" Jab and Grab...Hit and Flit Runners... Chavez Duran...even Lesser Mortals...Hatton were able to quadrant the ring to smaller operating areas on runners by dint of their good footwork.

Another area that might crop up from time to time is TV Commentators bias in favouring the house fighter, Their Employees Product over the imported opponent,
more than once have i seen a house commodity land some good punches on the opponent, and the commentator has described them as a "Devastating Combination" albeit the Import has not gone anywhere ..and when the import lands a similar combination, the commentator will then lavish praise on the House fighters ability to take a good shot... The import of course is there to make up the numbers in the House fighters Win Column ...

I suspect Billy Conn often wished he'd Ran out the last few rounds against Joe Louis

It Is What It Is....Each case on it's own Merits