Jim Carney- Author and Boxing Expert: Tyson vs. Liston Steel and concrete here. Perhaps the two heavyweight champions youd least like to meet in a dark alley (although Dempsey, Foreman, Jeffries and John L. would also be especially fearsome in that venue). In addition, both Sonny and Iron Mike may have the same major flaws. Both are extremely strong and able to convert their strength into punching power. Tyson also has quicker than average hands, which added to his power and defensive ability. He is generally considered above Sonny in this area Listons hand speed being rated average by some, above average by others. Tyson also had the edge in foot speed, though this might mean less than in other match-ups as both would basically be coming forward. A huge advantage for Liston would be his 13-inch edge in reach, whose value is enhanced by what many consider the most powerful left jab of all time. Liston would appear to have the edge in durability, though Tyson rates well here too. Many may feel that the fact that Mike hit the floor more times than Sonny relates to a weaker heart rather than a weaker chin. Both men are suspect in the matter of heart and there are specific parallels between them in this area. Each man folded when they met a man around their own talent level at their peak Liston with Ali and Tyson with Holyfield. They also both were total embarrassments in their rematches with their exposers Liston futiley chasing Ali then flopping down in round one and Tyson being outmuscled and outfought and then biting Holyfield twice before being disqualified in round three. In other areas of this match-up, the pair is close in weight, Listons height advantage is not significant to Tyson (virtually all of his major opponents were at least a little taller than Sonny). Though Liston and Tyson have fought men with the same main assets (strength and punch) that they face in each other, I dont know that Mike ever fought an oncoming fighter who combined brawn and skill with a mercilessly glacial approach like Liston. Likewise, Sonny never met a man with Mikes hard-hitting, ferocious (and in the beginning) bobbing and weaving attack. Tyson was probably the better schooled under Cus DAmato and Kevin Rooney, but Listons trainer Willie Reddish was solid and Sonny had the benefit of training with and serving as a sparring partner for master boxer and former great heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles. Both men rate well in the skill department. However, after the deaths of DAmato and Jimmy Jacobs and the firing of Rooney, Tyson grew notably sloppier in his ring techniques. Testimony to Listons skill is given by Muhammad Ali who notes that Sonny was smart in the ring. Overall, there wasnt much difference in the quality of foes each man met and beat. Both Sonny and Mike were hard trainers but they were also capable of neglecting training because of overconfidence. Neither was susceptible to cuts and neither had a stamina problem that some fighters with brawny arms had to deal with. Both were equally good at psyching their opponents out. In this dream matchup, the pair begins by competing with each other to intimidate. Tyson talks of dire consequences for Sonny and gets the famous Liston stare in return. The battle is a nip and tuck smashing war from the beginning. Tyson goes low to the body and switches to uppercuts while Sonny stabs with his awesome jab, sometimes adding left hooks and occasional right crosses to the mix. The battle swings back and forth. Despite the fact that Mikes short arms and more or less equal strength should give him an advantage in the infighting. Sonny dominates here. For some reason, all Mike usually does in close is hold on, sometimes even grabbing the other party and holding even when he is winning an exchange. During his career, Tyson folded in a number of different circumstances, including incidences when he was being overpowered. Liston, on the other hand, usually only had trouble (and only gave in against Ali) when he was fighting men with styles confusing to him. In brawn to brawn confrontations he was always a mans man. He flattened powerful Cleveland Williams after Williams had broken his nose at the start of one of their bouts. Zora Folley hit him 30 straight shots against the ropes and then Sonny steamrolled him. Sonny also went through one of his three fights with Marty Marshall with a broken jaw. I dont think Mike would fare that well in these situations. Thats the difference between the two and thats why I pick Liston by a late round kayo.
Probably discussed before, don't care. I think Lewis chin can't be half bad. Undertained and at his heaviest, he took a beating from Vitali Klitschko and came back to turn it around. I think a focused, non-lethargic Lewis is just brutal. That being said, a prime Tyson (1985-1988 ) ? Who beats that!? Tough call. I think a ref with a spine will be necessary to keep Lewis from holding and leaning.
He didn't out jab Lewis in round 1 or any round for that matter, that is a myth. He landed one left jab in the round that's it. He also really shouldn't have been given Round 1 either. Two of the judges just gave it to him based on some ineffective aggression. Lewis won every round according to Associated Press and almost every other press row scorers. Lewis nearly doubled Tyson's connect rate in round 1 and landed almost all of the hard punches in the round. Mid way through round 4 Larry Merchant: "At this point the bad boy of boxing is getting spanked by Lennox Lewis". At the end of round 7: "This is by far the worst beating Mike Tyson has ever taken". KTFO8 get over it. After the fight the legendary George Foreman said," There's no one that can take this from Lennox Lewis now. There's no doubt the best heavyweight of all time, what he's done clearly puts him on top of the heap." Mike Tyson: "I could never beat this guy, he's just too big and too strong." Lewis wasn't in his prime either and was older than Tyson.
Well....The bout did go that way. Though Foreman is always prone to contradictory statements & exaggerations. And Lewis wasif not in his prime, very near it-he just hit it late. Tyson's statement? He was 14 years past his prime, almost a cipher of himself, & mentally screwed, would he have thought that in the late '80's? I do not think so. Sag, very good analysis! A couple comments & questions: 1) They were both past their primes when they acted in unethical, ugly ways. 2) Liston had at least 3 incidents, including Ali, when his gloves blinded opponents, right? Surely this must be counted against his heart & toughness. 3) Was Liston's opponents as good as Tyson's? I have downgraded my rating of him since they were NOT so good overall. Tyson's opponents at his peak, as discussed in a very detailed thread, were pretty good, at least as good as pre-exile Ali. Tyson's opponents later including Holyfield & Lewis I give him less credit for, since he lost.
Tyson KO within 5. Tyson had the undderated jab to gey inside. He easily slips Lewis's jab and connects with hooks and uppercuts. Lewis was scared of the ghost of Tyson, imagine what the fearless 88 version does. Immaculate defense, iron in his chin and fists. Another day at the office for Mike.
I think only Lewis never beat Tyson.I think Lewis with steroid beat Tyson (Tyson is an extreme mesomorph and this is the reason why D'Amato and Bobby Stewart discovered him.) First of all a trained mesomorph is always much more stronger-especially with significant fast twitch muscle fiber mass- than a lanky trained ectomorph(lewis is ectomorph). Try to ask the elite bodybuilders or scientists! Maybe you can't understand this because you live in a sick "dreamworld".Unfortunately the genetics rules.Just the frustrated hysterical losers can't accept this. I think Vitali klitschko had Nadrolone case.He was skinny like Lewis. I think it wasn't surprising outcome. Now don't try to excuse your favorite klitschkos by your pathetic,hysterical mind! And don't try wash our brains(especially the kids')! Respect the science ! Every intelligent man does it. Otherwise another dreamfight.Who cares? Lewis or not? It's total unimportant everybody has opinion by sympathy. Respect the bigger knowledge and don't be a ******!
Interesting though somewhat controversial post. Tyson is really an extreme mesomorph, he's built like tank, with thick legs and arms. He was muscular even at early teens. I think Tyson has literally One-in-a Million genetics and if he went bodyduilding he'd be great BB. His strength is phenomenal too.
VVMM that reads like a fortune cookie in hysteics. Calm down. Now as a long time lifter seeing & talking to many, yes Tyson was naturally muscular. One in a million? No. He did not have the widest clavicles/shoulders, but maybe he could have been a great BB, but unless a strictly tested natural competition-where there is so much less money & glory-he would still have to juice up the wazoo. The old ectomorph/endormorh/mesmorph trinity is good as a very general description, but is a vast oversimplification. People are combinations of these things, & tall guys may take longer to fil out, OR not do so unless they train concertedly for it. Also they must consume more calories to gain mass. If Lewis & Klitchko were not training for mass they would not get bulky. But you look leaner just being so tall Lewis was still note xactly "skinny", but low body fat & a reasonable amount of muscle-he was an excellent HW for God's sake, not Pee Wee Herman. Now I am strongly against any PEDs. But I want to see evidence guys used before accusations. Even good circumstantial evidence like already strong & gaining much weight quikcly. I do not see said evidence.