Ali vs Marciano: How would it go?

Might the gloves used in the 1950's and lack of anti cut techniques such as Vaseline / whatever paste like stuff they later used in the 1970's have played a factor in why Marciano was cut as often as he was?

By the way, you are alone in your opinion that Rocky was slow handed. No he was not.

 

Layne was neither quick ,in particularly good shape, or adept defensively. he was also stopped 6 times.
Layne was light years away from Ali in skill ,speed, condition physique,chin, and reflexes.

Don't you think Ali stops Layne?

 

No, I#m not alone Heavy Hands agrees with me. Marciano had illegal coagulants applied to his cuts in major fights.Stuff like Monsel's Solution which sets like cement and has to be chiselled out.

Vaseline is a major factor in softening the skin which in turn leads to cuts it is the overuse of it that is the problem .

In the Uk only 1000 and 1 aqueous /adrenaline solution may be used to seal a cut. In the US its 1-1000 adrenaline aventine thrombin is permitted but it appears to be a lot more lax there.

The late Saad Muhammad had Monsels Solution applied to his cuts against John Conteh in their first fight, this allowed him to continue without bleeding, apart from leaving scar tissue if a drop gets into the eye it will leave permanent scarring.

No prizes for guessing Marciano's attraction for you.:hey

 

This is a big point about the gloves. I have addressed this earlier. The 6oz gloves were obviously a factor in Rockys cuts since it was during his reign that larger gloves were required for all title fights after his nose injury. With the same gloves Walcott was cut just as bad as Rocky. Charles was nicked too. Those gloves tore skin and drew more blood than the later sized mitts.

Rocky never got cut with 8oz gloves against Moore and Cokkell. ALI did not fight with anything less than 8oz in title fights.

Yes, mcvey is alone in thinking Rocky was slow handed. His answer to my pointing out specific sequences of film where Rocky was fast handed was not that he thought Rocky wasnt fast but that the opponents he was hitting were old or had swallowed it.

To be fair to mcvey, Rocky was unconventional in that he did not punch the same speed all the time. He punched slow when it suited him and faster when needed. So you can kind of find what you want to look for if it suits you. Thing is Rocky was a crude phenomenon. He had sucsess with so much wierd stuff it's difficult to entirely write him off.

 

good post and good point Rocky lured you in with his low ducks and tilted catchers stance but rose up quick and surely was not out sped by Charles or Walcott or LaStarza (who were known to be quick handed) Sporadic rhythm and speed but not slow like Bonavena, Tua, or Foreman

 

Yes, Rocky always drew the man onto an exchange within his range. Once exchanging he could keep up with anybody. The sporadic rhythm absolutely separated him from anyone else. It broke the rhythm and plans of the other fellow. Nothing to predict about marciano other than Rocky would land when you didn't expect at a range you did not expect and unexpectedly have you fight on his terms.

So many boxers better equipped with smoother conventional skills could not work him out.

 

what a horrible point.. it is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with the speed, marciano was slow like hell, even more for his small size. and yes, ali would be x 5 faster, walcott and charles made rocky look a turtle, ali would land 4 blows in the same time that rocky landed 1

 

i f you are not in your peak 100% in every advantage(department) of your style it is not the same thing. ali was much more static in the 70s , he had a completely different style, and when he was green he was not strong enough , he wa snot developed 100% like a man at that time, he improved his chin ,strength and hitting power a lot since he was green. a peak ali 1966-67 would not have the same problems with frazier or norton, not the same problems that he had in the 70s when he wa smuch more static and he had to take much more damage , 2 different styles... just watch the henrry cooper fights 1 and 2.. vs ali 63 and 66... great difference...

 

hahaha it is the ultimate bull****, saying that marciano was fast and that ali was not much faster lmao, marciano was ponderous and slow like hell despite his small size. just look at foreman vs frazier and foreman was much faster and dinamic than rocky on his feet

 

Ali by late rounds tko or on cuts. Would be a very good fight.

 

There will be a style of fighter that will always pose a problem for any fighter regardless of what point in a career they meet. You can argue that with a bit more speed he could have done this or with a bit more experience and strength he could have done that but in most cases apart from a period of serious decline it's all relative. What was lacking was compensated with something else.

When Ali was young and had a high workrate he had an edge over fighters with a lower workrate. When he was older he had an edge over younger guys because he had the experience and size to overcome them.

Both sides of this Ali required to be able to predict what the other man was going to do next and presure fighters always presenting the most difficulty to him.

Oscar Bonnavena was always a difficult problem to solve. Unpredictable and high pressure.

Marciano was much better, more accurate, intense and explosive version of Oscar Bonnavena.

 

Marciano's nose being split open the the second Charles fight had nothing to do with the gloves or the size of them it was caused by an elbow.

Neither did the injury have any bearing on the change to 8oz gloves

Marciano was cut on the left eye against Moore.

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Thats three assertions corrected!

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Deja Vu!

 

Trying to predict a cut eye stoppage is like trying to predict a draw. It is a bit silly.

The bigger gloves came in after Marciano v Charles II.

The earlier gloves of 6oz included a greater percentage of filling in the wrist part of the glove. There was a lot less in the knuckle part of the glove than 6oz of padding. They caused more cuts.

I missed the cut against Moore, proberbly because it was of the insignificant variaty, but thanks for pointing that out.

Facially I still think Rocky came out of the Moore fight better than he did in most of his title fights and that could be attributed to bigger gloves.

Rocky was not Henry Cooper.

 

it is based on your imagination.. we never saw bonavena vs the explosive fast ali, he faced a past prime static ali and all oscar got was a complete beating, a peak ali would have stopped him much faster, and bonavena was stronger, 20 pounds bigger than marciano, with longer reach and he was faster than rocky ,great factor

 

It would be a good fight, but with only one winner.