so you are claiming that someone in need of shoulder surgery went into a world title level fight? Why are you writing that?
You have to look at overall fights and what they did overall rather than just one or two fights. With what I noted about Taylor at SMW, I think he may have got Hopkins at a good time at MW, because other than that, it was close fight and close fight and loss. I would have favoured Woodhall to have beaten Taylor at SMW without too much fuss. As for better fighter, its tough to say as Woodhall had good and bad. Better fighter could well be taylor, but I dont think for one instant that he would beat Woodhall at SMW. It like I think Floyd Mayweather is a better fighter than possibly all, but wouldnt favour him against Klitschko for example
Taylor the better boxer, but a better super middleweight is a different question, and the question more relevant to this debate.
I cant remember how I scored either Taylor and Hopkins fight now. I recall thinking how hurt taylor seemed late on in the first one. I liked Taylor, but you are right, he didnt do too well after
I have come to agree with many that Herol is a waste of time to debate with. He wont answer questions, ducks things terribly and lies, and we now know, doesnt know what he is debating. I dont think he is worth the time. He is a boring irrelevant poster
taylor issue? the taylor who dominated jeff lacy as good as calzaghe did, yah? You are referring to content of that HUGE cut and pasteyou keep doing? I hadn't even read that, I was replying to the issue further down the line at Des's entry. Lesson 1 -Ignoring out of boredom and not readin is not the same as ducking. But I will go back and plough through it just this once for you since you are indirectly asking me to. brb.
This content is protected Remember it is resume, not what you think, but factual resume only. Whatever top win you pick for Froch or Ward, Calzaghe has at least 2 better wins than either, before you go on to the rest of his resume. So how is it debateable? I have only noted Froch and Ward, as they are people of today and This content is protected , and S Collins has 2 wins over Benn and 2 over Eubank, so I dont know if I would have Froch or Ward in the top 5 for resume at SMW, even if I think they would do well H2H. This is about resume, and many here dont know the division before the S6 or before Calzaghe beat Lacy. Lets put any of it to the test. I would argue that Wards best win is Kessler, and would guess Kessler is Frochs best win also. Others will say Wards best win is Froch. Well neither of those wins over faded Kessler or a win over Froch coming off a Mdec over SMW journeyman G Johnson, is as good as beating prime undefeated Kessler without eye trouble. I would say Wards next best win is Froch, and Frochs, next best win is Bute. Both of those are way behind a win over Eubank, who many fail to note was younger than all of the other beaten opponents noted. In fact Calzaghes victory over prime Lacy, was in my opinion greater than Frochs over Bute, but that is another dispute. Dawson has no SMW resume and Abraham has not been able to compete at top level at SMW. So lets test it out Calzaghe beats------------------Ward beats------------------Froch beats Prime Kessler--------------------Faded Kessler----------------more faded Kessler This content is protected Eubank---------------------------Froch-----------------------Bute This content is protected Mitchell--------------------------Dawson----------------------Abraham This content is protected Brewer--------------------------faded Bika---------------------Pascal? This content is protected Reid-----------------------------Abraham----------------------Magee This content is protected Sheika----------------------------Green-----------------------Johnson This content is protected Veit-----------------------------Rodriguez-----------------------Dirrell This content is protected Mkertchyan-----------------------Miranda-----------------------Groves This content is protected I will leave it there as there is no need to go on, as there is little that I think can be debated, except perhaps the order. Add Calzaghe has a better SMW win compared to any that you find for Ward and Froch and then you can not only add a better win every time, but also Woodhall, Lacy, Bika (prime), Veit 2 other SMW champs not mentioned that Calzaghe beat, as well as the other top 10 SMWs not mentioned. Calzaghe beat 3 undefeated fighters that either were or became SMW champs. Froch beat 1 undefeated fighter that was a SMW champ. Ward hasnt done that. edit I didnt put Taylor in for Froch, I dont think Ward has another opponent to put in there, but Taylor at SMW is well below prime Bika at SMW :deal
The first fight really foreshadowed the trouble Taylor would have with big punchers. Hopkins cracked him with a right, I forgot what round but it was late, and he was practically out on his feet for a moment. I liked Taylor too, I really thought he was the goods.
Bailey one more thing, can you clarify this taylor issue? its not clear in that cut and paste post of yours. I mean the taylor who dominated lacy as good as calzaghe, and primer hopkins better than calzaghe. Not another taylor. not some issue you had with your tailor over your beergut. cheers.
That's kind of apples and oranges. Taylor and Woodhall are at and about the same weight class. Who'd win if they fought? Who would look better on someone's resume? Guys move up all the time. This idea that somehow SMW is in a vaccuum and the only way success translates there is to fight there is silly. It's like saying Calzaghe wouldn't have been a good win for Hopkins had he won that fight because Calzaghe had no pedigree at LHW. Being #3 or 4 p4p, being on a historic run and winning convincingly against good opponents wouldn't go into it? Not saying that a Taylor win is on the same level. But the idea is the same. What exactly had Bika done to be such a good win? He'd fought no one yet. It was an ok win, but he hadn't done much of anything at the weight yet.
With Taylor, you can see his SMW resume for yourself. Viewing the Taylor performances after Hopkins, there are many that I would favour over Taylor, Woodhall included at SMW. Taylor didnt have one real good performance after, which seems to be lost in all this. Bika hadnt done loads, but had drawn with a good SMW champ Tdec, beforehand and I believe it was you who said you felt Bika was better than suggested previously, though could be wrong. Bika has certainly performed better at SMW than Taylor
Taylor didn't have a whole hell of a lot of fights at SMW. He made his bones at MW. Either way. To say the Woodhalll would beat him.....well, what makes you say that? Would Woodhall have been competitive vs Hopkins(let alone beating him x2) and then Froch(who let's face Taylor had beat, but for the miracle finish)..... At any weight? Not in my book. That's really kind of looking at it all through rose colored glasses guys. As for Bika, he had an injury shortened draw or decision win or something like that correct? But aside from that was a pretty much another nobody when Calzaghe fought him right? I'm just saying, back in '07, that's pretty much he definition of "green", is it not? So, you have to be going largely on his recent form, which, let's also face it, a debatable win against Periban(legitimately could have gone either way), and a draw against Anthony Dirrell are not exactly the stuff of legend. He's managed to finally snag a title all these years later, as fringe contenders do from time to time. It's a decent win for Calzaghe, and for Ward, but nothing more IMO. But to say he was prime then, and faded when Ward beat him (despite being much closer to when he would ultimately achieve something.) He hadn't done much but log rounds vs some very good fighters, but ultimately lose those fights. It just seems self-serving.