Jack Johnson v Rocky Marciano

you are a ******ed biased troll heavy head, tongue and feet but you know that already Right

 

GET A NICE DAY SR TROLL :hi:

 

Johnson was great for his day no doubt, I spent a lot of time up at Ring magazine on 31st street in NYC and many of the old-timers including Nat Fleischer were big fans of his. I just think Boxing changed from the time of Dempsey moving on to Louis and I favor both over Johnson. I do not think Johnson would be an easy fight for those 2 but I favor them over JJ and I favor Marciano, I just dont think Jack Johnson would be able to handle the pressure and power and pace of Marciano for 10-15 rounds, in fact Johnson may have the best chance of the 3 against Dempsey but I still like the power of Dempsey over JJ

 

Fleischer was more than a big fan he was a close friend and he rated Johnson the greatest heavyweight he ever saw.

I don't recall him saying much about Ezzard Charles .I know Louis said if he had been prime he would have taken Charles out inside 8rds. Charles beat a Walcott who was about his skill level ,he gave crude Marciano a competitive fight.What else did he do?

 

Interesting opinions on all sides of this one. One opinion that tend to agree with is choklabs regarding the different gloves that Johnson wore and how it might have affected his performance if he had to wear todays bigger stiffer gloves. With todays hand wraps , gauze, tape and bigger gloves, you can't open and grab like u could with gloves in Johnson's era. Form follows function. Todays gloves and wraps allow a fighter to let his hands fly with greater protection. It also affords greater protection for the face due to the extra padding which lend itself to the hands up defense as opposed to the lean back left hand low but extended defense of Johnson's day. It's the evolution of sport. Better equipment, different approach. Try putting a modern NFL team in equipment from 50+ yrs ago and u would see a different game...and many more injuries....or maybe not since the less protection afforded the players might force them to be a little more conservative in the way they play. Just my 2 cents.

 

Agree with this and the mentioned Choklab thing too -but I think honestly without the lack of wraps etc and the bigger gloves (not to mention the restriction on whupping a white guy without having to worry about getting lynched then IMO Johnson would pretty much obliterate most anyone as quickly as he decided TBH and the holding and messing and toying was just something he did as a means to amuse himself when he couldn't necessarily go out and blast someone out like you can today

 

Marciano was also very strong and VERY slippery in the clinch. I think Johnson would have his hands full trying to control Rocky and would pay a price every time he assumed he would be able to do so. Marciano also does very nice work in a clinch, a really underrated aspect of his game.

I think Walcott, Charles and Moore offered close approximations of Johnson than Hart or Burns or Mcvea offered of Marciano. That said, Walcott had Marciano beat through 13.

 

I don't see how you can make a comparison between boxing and American football.

Any handicaps that Johnson would encounter today would be balanced by the handicaps the notoriously dirty Marciano would encounter under a referee who enforced the rules.

The poster who brought the glove issue up said there were more kos and injuries with the older gloves.

Yet Johnson was kod only twice in his prime and after a 77 fight career that stretched into his 50's he retired with his face unmarked.:think

 

Clinching is not holding ,it is plural as opposed to singular in that it requires two to makea clinch.
Cooper hit on the break his entire career .

I have both In The Ring & Out, & Unforgivable Blackness I can't recall that passage being in either.

Marciano was a filthy fighter that's where it is ,he was allowed to commit numerous fouls in several of his title defences.A stricter referee, one with courage would have tossed him out after repeated warnings.

Johnson was not a dirty fighter he followed the rules as they existed.
The rules during Dempsey's time were rather vague ,a fighter who decked his opponent was required to stand back until he arose, Dempsey never did.
After the Firpo fight the rule book was altered to include the phrase a fighter scoring a knockdown must go to the furthest neutral corner until he does so the count will not proceed. It was properly implemented in the second Tunney fight and possibly cost Dempsey the title.I say properly implemented but that only applied to Dempsey's knockdown of Tunney .Later when Dempsey was knocked down but a short right from Tunney, Dave Barry the referee rushed in and stared counting with Tunney standing over Dempsey. Fighters hold and hit today, to say they don't is silly, B Hop is a master of it.Lennox habitually did it.
Bottm Line.
Rules require a strong referee to implement them otherwise they are ineffectual, and a strong refereee hinders Marciano more than Johnson.

 

Duplicate of below

 

I have both In The Ring & Out and Unforgivable Blackness,I don't recall that passage in either of them. I said clinching not holding and it is plural not singular as," in a clinch". Marciano was a dirty fighter who was allowed to commit numerous fouls in title defences ,today after being repeatedly warned he would be thrown out.

Johnson fought according to the rules of his day he was not a dirty fighter.
Cooper hit on the break his entire career.

Dempsey exploited the laxity of the rules as they were enforced.

It was always a requirment that a fighter scoring a knockdown should move back and allow a fallen fighter to rise and resume fighting but the wording was vague and not until after the Firpo fight was a new passage introduced in the rules that expressly stated that a fighter scoring a knockdown must retire to the furthest neutral corner ,failure to do so would mean the count would not start.
It was properly implemented in the second Tunney fight and Dempsey's failure to adhere to it may have cost him the title.
I say properly implemented, but when Tunney dropped Dempsey in the 8thrd Dave Barry ran in and started counting with Tunney standing over the floored Dempsey.
Holding and hitting is practised today, to say it isn't is silly.B Hop is a master at it.Lennox habitually did it.

Bottom Line.
Rules are ineffectual unless there is a strong referee in there willing to implement them,and a strong referee hinders Marciano more than Johnson.

 

Good point SplitNose regarding Johnson's holding back and carrying many of his opponents instead of ending matters early. I always felt that he could've KO'd Jeffries much earlier than he did but decided to give him a beating first. Same with Burns and Ketchell. Perhaps the gloves helped Jack in his clinching/holding tactics due to thier design, along with the ruleset of the times.

 

you know I don't think there has ever been a dominant clean HW champ?

dirt is the make-up of champions.

 

Both Fitzsimmons and Rickard the referee felt that Johnson could have ended it whenever he chose and publicly said so.

 

Joe Louis.