Who has the best Resume in SMW history?

I do agree with a fair bit of what you write. I feel Woodhall at SMW beats Taylor, but it is just an opinion as we will never know.
I agree with alot of what you write with Bika, but I dont call him Green, as he had already been in a world title fight, had well over 20 fights and I say prime as it was around that time he beat some reasonable fighters in the contender when winning.
When Ward fought him he had been very inactive and was coming off a DQ loss and on bad form where he hasnt looked great since even as a champ. The title wins dont make the fighter, its the opponents and I truly believe a younger peak age active Bika is far greater than a non active fighter.
Still we are driting a bit and that is arguably a top 5 win for Ward, where as with Calzaghe it isnt, due to how many years he was champ at the weight, like it possibly wont be for Ward if still champ in 5 years time, but to say at this time that anybody has a greater SMW resume than Calzaghe is a big push

 

Fair enough.

Getting back on topic, I agree that Calzaghe has the best SMW resume, mentioned it earlier in the thread. But I would add that others might not agree due to the fact that the other guys', namely Froch and Ward, have wins on a similar level, but not as many, but have done it in a shorter amount of time.

In Froch's case, starting later, but coming on strong for the last 5 or 6 years. His time is almost up, I'd say.

In Ward's case, getting a bunch of his big wins early, but having his career stagnate the past year and a half. Still more to be written in his case. But a move up ought to be made soon. Not much waiting for him at 168.

 

Thats part of the problem Ward and Froch have, in that the era was supposed to be weak when Calzaghe was dominating and now they are recycling his old opponents and people who have got a clue think its something new and amazing.
People forget Kesslers SMW resume which could be argued above both Ward and Frochs

Kessler resume -
Froch undefeated WBC SMW champ
Sartison who became WBA SMW champ
Siaca WBA SMW champ
Magee WBA SMW champ
Beyer 3 time champ and reigning WBC SMW champ
Andrade undefeated
Lucas former WBC SMW champ
Thobela former WBC SMW champ
Mundine 2 time WBA SMW champ beaten between reigns

Kesslers career has probably stagnated due to inactivity also

Eubank and Ottke have very good SMW resumes that I would put above Ward and Froch

 

Not overly impressed with Kessler's resume. Nor Eub's, although he does have some great wins, he has too many of the very pedestrian variety.

Ottke's would be pretty good if there weren't the shadow of corruption cast upon it.

The way I see it is this.....

Calzaghe's resume is the best for now. He proved he was a notch above the competition, e.g. Kessler, and the other SMW's who were around in his day. The only one who I think could fight him on even terms would be Ward. The result would reasonably be in doubt.

Ward has also proved he is a notch above the competition of his day. Calzaghe would be the only one who could fight him on even terms.

Froch has proven to be on a level with Kessler. Those 2 have proven to be a level above the, the Lacys, the Beyers, the Reids, the Abrahams, the Bikas, the Woodhalls, etc. Most of the guys are on the same general level.

Calzaghe has the best resume, but largely based on his wins over the guys who still in this current crop, and their exploits in it. Not because of his domination of the previous one.

I think this is why opinion is so split in regards to Calzaghe's achievements. And why those achievements don't seem to equal his talent. The previous era wasn't impressive. I don't see guys like Mitchell and Brewer being able to make inroads today.

To me there is a middle ground though. You can give the guy the credit for being the best SMW of his generation, would have had the same level of success in this era, but also seeing that the resume isn't great, but solid, due to the mediocre level of talent in the divi until he was older. Because, still, he beat them.

 

What a load of **** .

Berol, you absolute spastic. Utterly f*cking clueless .

Mitchell was a former two-time WBA titlist, coming off a unification bout with Ottke when he boxed Calzaghe. He never boxed for the NABF title in his whole career you f*cking idiot.

Having to look Woodhall up on wikipedia atsch?

What a mess you've gotten yourself in with your interpretation of Calzaghe-Mitchell . Seriously, are you mentally ill? You're the dumbest, most clueless obsessed Calzaghe troll on this forum. A sad bitter irrelevant worthless turd :deal.
I **** in your face, ***** :****:!:.

 

Joe Boxer!!! :happy

Good to see you posting.

 

Froch is of a similar level to past best Kessler.
Ward has had the benefit of fighting faded fighters, which is all he has been left with.
I am not convinced Froch would have been as successful a few years back, but think he like Ward has been able to capitalise on what I think is a weak era. Faded Kessler beat Froch.

Eubanks resume at SMW is impressive - Malinga (future SMW champ, on more than one occassion), Rocchigiani (undefeated relinquished IBF SMW champ), Wharton, Watson, draw with Benn (WBC SMW champ), Holmes (former SMW champ) to name a few. Most of Eubanks opponents were top 10 rated

Its alot of todays era I dont see competing.
Bika unable to make a real impact a few years ago, now when faded and older is a world champ.
Geale was able to be a unified MW champ and boiled down faded Mundine beat him.
Braehmer a 2 time LHW champ and now older a top 5 LHW, beaten by faded Veit
Kessler when faded and with vision problems beats Froch
Faded Kessler today is still top 3 and the best win for champ and #1
Steiglitz and Abraham swap the title back and forth but Steiglitz was unable to make an impact a few years back and being KOd
Magee beaten by faded Reid and put down 4 times, yet years later pushes Froch and becomes when older and faded a SMW champ
There are further examples but I wont bore you

 

This idea that prime Kessler was somehow an invincible force until he came across Calzaghe is at best an exaggeration. Who did Kessler beat that Carl Froch wouldn't have? Who was around back then that Froch wouldn't beat? Other than Calzaghe.

Those guys are on a level. 10 out of 10 fights would be competitive. Now, then, always.

There are always a handful of top guys in a division, and there are always fringe contenders and gatekeepers, etc. Sometimes they snag the odd title.

Bika isn't suddenly among the division's elite now that he has a title. Or Steiglitz. Neither was Denis Inkin or Sartison, etc. These guys are all on a level.

You think that Brewer, Siaca and guys like that would be able to do any better now as opposed to then?

As I said, there are only 2 guys who have proven to be elite; Calzaghe and Ward. Then you have guys like Kessler and Froch. Except Calzaghe didn't have that in the previous era, except for Ottke and that fight wasn't happening. I think Kessler and Froch would have had his head anyway.

Calzaghe's early reign just didn't have the depth and quality of legit SMW contenders that it has had in recent years.

How do you think a Lucian Bute would have done in the early 2000's? Or Jeff Lacy from the mid 00's? Or even George Groves now? I think they'd be quite successful, don't you?

Froch and Kessler would have dominated that division.

Again, in my eyes, Calzaghe would be equally as successful today as he was back then. And he proved that by beating the likes of Kessler. It certainly wasn't by beating the likes of Byron Mitchell or Mrketchian or Veit. The same way that Ward didn't prove it by beating the likes of Allan Green or Edison Miranda.

 

bailey,

Sorry for the late reply, work's been really busy.

Yes, but in my opinion, Toney was the better fighter as a whole.

Eubank was a great fighter and had a better SMW resume, but Toney had more ability overall.

They both had fights where they fought well below their full capabilities, when they weren't motivated etc.

But when they both fought to their full capabilities, I feel that Toney was better, and their SMW resumes alone, have no bearing on my overall ratings.

Let's pretend it happened. I'm trying to see things from your perspective.

If Roy had've knocked out Toney, would that have any bearing on your ratings?

Chad still has better wins at the weight than Joe does.

Again, Joe scraped past Hopkins, and beat a version of Roy who was nearly 40, who'd been destroyed over 4 years earlier, who Joe had said he didn't want to fight on three occasions.

All you can do when rating wins and offering an opinion, is to look at things from every angle.

But you haven't done that.

I'm not trying to find an angle, I'm trying to understand your thinking.

Chad Dawson is just one example.

Let's suppose that Chad hadn't fought at SMW.

Or let's put Joe in a fantasy fight against an other LHW.

Spinks, Foster, whoever.

If I started a thread, you'd give your opinion, and you'd look at Joe's whole career, and not just his only two fights at the weight.

I know you would, you know you would, and so does everyone else.

But on this thread, you're not allowing me to do this when discussing Toney.

We're only debating here on your terms.

There isn't an agenda.

I've said I don't class the wins as great wins for Collins, and given reasons why.

I've been a member on here for over two years, and I can't really recall you holding Collins in such high regard.

I've considered everything there is to consider.

We're just going around in circles.

No, the forefront of your argument is their SMW resumes only.

Again, you're only looking at SMW and not as a whole.

I shouldn't have to tell you, if you've followed his career.

 

Serge,

He was personality wise, and it's strange that he turned out the way he did, after spending so much time with Brendan.

Sports fans in Sheffield lost all respect for him, after he split with Brendan. It must have crushed Brendan, after he'd spent nearly everyday with him, from him being 7 years old.

He was part of Brendan's family, even staying over at his house.

As Bob Dylan once wrote - 'Money doesn't talk, it swears.'

Not only did he leave Brendan, but he left his best mate Ryan Rhodes behind. Those two were extremely close friends for years.

It's like he'd been taken over.

But even before the split, he was full of arrogance and rude.

One of my best friends went to school with him, and they used to speak regularly, and her Dad was their teacher and he was well known and respected.

Just a few years they'd left school in the early 90's, my friend went on a night out around town, and she bumped into him, with around five other lads. She says she doesn't know who they were. She went up to say hello, and he said he didn't know who she was. She thought he was joking at first, and it all got a bit embarrassing. My mate said "Don't be silly, you know who I am, and my Dad was our teacher" Naz said "I don't know what you're talking about, but if you want me to talk to you, I will."

The way he behaved on his release, was absolutely outrageous, and he should have been thoroughly ashamed of himself.

Who in their right mind, would have gotten picked up in a stretch limo with all of the cameras being there?

Like you say, it was disgusting!

I've just read the excerpt. Ha!

He also had runs in with Eubank I believe.

Have you seen the interview below, from last year?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tca3rs3v0to


Go to 45.25 onwards.

I'd love to read your thoughts on this.


I've also read that he disrespected Manny Steward in camp.


Thanks.

 

It depends on the circumstances, but we're talking about Ward supposedly ducking Bute.

 

When Joe fought Roy, he'd been blasted in 2 rounds, 4 years previously.

Yet you rate the win.

 

You trying to get my attention Loudon?
Roy was beaten when struggling at the weight and that version still had enough to beat Tarver.
Jones adjusted, motivated and established at the weight couldnt beat brittle hands, bloated shot Calzaghe

 

What difference is the circumstance?
Ward fought Dawson at a similar time to when Froch fought Bute, there probably wasnt 2 months in it