WOW, just Wow - sometimes they FILMED it Right!

I agree with almost everything you said except for the stadium. I maintain that guys like Mills, Wood****, et al who were fighting in stadiums in Britain would not have been stadium fighters here and would have been at best occasional main eventers at MSG which means they would have been club level guys here. Fighting at places like Jamaica, Bronx Col. Jerome, etc. and getting called up occasionally to fight a bigger name to fill a date. Nothing wrong with that at all. You often see better fights and more interesting characters in those smaller venues than at the big ones. But there is also a difference in class there.

McAvoy was good. Good puncher, good technique. Not a world beater but a good lower tier contender type who could beat those guys and probably spring an occasional upset on the right night against a high level guy. Aesthetically hes the best of the bunch to me. Benny Lynch I really like and when you see what he can do you have to think that booze accounts for some of his more puzzling losses. Peter Kane is another I like from that era. In fact I just recently bought an original film of Lynch-Small Montana. Good performance. No doubt Lynch was world class. Watson was good nothing special but a solid little guy. Again, a lower tier guy. Tough and pugnacious but kind of slow and wild at times. He should have never been stopped by Miller. Miller was a good fighter but not a KO puncher and Watson left himself wide open for that roundhouse left. Tarleton was also pretty good. Tall, lanky guy who liked to get in close and bang away. Fearless. And let me say something about Tarleton. That guy had to have a great chin because he always kept it way up in the air and was never knocked out. He was begging to be KOd and never was.

 

I've asked you on the other thread you made, which world class fighters did Gilroy beat? I'm still waiting for your reply.

I also asked you for one verified quote from a respected boxing writer where he refers to Gilroy as world class, again no answer.:think

 

Lets see that original article. Is it a Leicestershire paper or is it from Scotland? If so I wonder what a Doncaster paper would say about the fight? He got a rematch with Woodock less than 2 years later and was again dropped, 6x this time and stopped. What happened there? Was that a robbery also? Was he also robbed against Shaw, Hawkins, and Berry in between the two Wood**** fights?

Do you see how ridiculous you sound? You are arguing that Gilroy get all of this credit for fighting Woodock because he was a MW and then complaining that he had to come down in weight to fight Cerdan as a MW and according to you was forced to make an unnaturally low weight of 173, 12 pounds more than Cerdan, the same he weighed for Wood****...

You act like its unusual and crooked that Cerdan's people wanted a LHW to come down to a reasonable weight to fight their man. I dont get the argument, this is boxing 101 and happens all the time. Its been happening forever. What, outside of being your grandad, is so special about Gilroy that he shouldnt have to do that??? If Gilroy let himself go and got fat and had to make weight thats his problem. If it was such a handicap he should have stuck to fighting LHWs and HWs (who you allege he was too small for).

Anyone who states the obvious is wrong and you are right. yeah he was robbed seven times. Ok, lets pretend thats true thats 7 out of 34 fights he failed to win, 11 of which he was knocked out in. Are you including the Wood**** stoppage as one of your robberies? Because people get stopped all the time in which not everybody is in agreement, thats hardly a robbery.

Heres how it works: Cerdan fought Gilroy. Gilroy outweighed Cerdan 12 pounds. Cerdan floored Gilroy in every round for a total of 7 knockdowns in stopping him in four rounds. Cerdan gets credit.

Here is how it doesnt work: Gilroy fights Woodock. Gilroy is probably outweighed somewhere between 15 and 20 pounds. Gilroy gets stopped. Gilroy's grandson complains that the stoppage was bad based on an unnamed source and wants credit for his grandfather claiming his grandfather was a MW. Gilroy gets a rematch and under similar circumstances is stopped again, being dropped six times. Gilroy gets the credit due him for taking on a bigger challenge but why should we pretend hes something he wasnt based on this. Had Gilroy exceeded our expectations of what would happen in such a weight mismatch he would get credit. In fact what happened is what would have been expected so it just is what it is.

 

Your "version" of the Wood**** fight is at odds with this one.:think


"The venue was Leicester’s De Montfort Hall again, against another Scottish champion, Bert Gilroy. For the first time in his professional career, Bruce felt the displeasure of a crowd disagreeing with a decision. The fight was a good one and both men acquitted themselves well, but in the sixth round, Gilroy went down after a savage right to the jaw. He took his time getting himself together but misjudged it and the time keeper counted ten and out just as he was getting to his feet to continue. The referee, Jack Hart, followed the rule that a boxer must be ready to defend himself by the end of the count, but the crowd disagreed and Gilroy’s corner protested. The result would have been inevitable as Bruce was winning on points and in terms of dominating the fight by that stage, but it soured the atmosphere somewhat. "





Apropos the Cerdan fight, despite conceding 11.75lbs, Cerdan had Gilroy on the floor 7 times in the less than 4 rounds the fight lasted.

 

Cerdan floored Gilroy 7 times in under 4rds that doesnt give much time for "clever work".You are the only one claiming his defeats were robberies your crusade has become ludicrous.

Which winning streak do you refer to this one June 1937-March 1938.
MIck Hassan 2-3-0
Walter Rankin 2-5-0
Jim Mount 15-19-4
Tommy Burns 10-14-2
Tommy Henderson 37-22-5
Pat Cowley 8-10 -0
Jim Mount 14-18-4
Pat Cowley 7-7-0
Tiny Celphane 0-0-0
Jim Mount 13-16-4
Jacky Moran 0-1-0
Jack Sharkey 2-6 -0
Pat Collins 0-1-0
Only one of these 12 had a winning record,3 had never won a fight,1 had never had one.
After this "streak" Gilroy drew with Bushman Dempster 3-16-0 .
Then it was old playmate Pat Cowley again ,whom he had already beaten twice.
Pat Cowley12-13-0
Jack McNight 16-31-8
Roy Mills 16-26-5
Johnny Clements 13-8-1
Battling Charley Parkin 80-56-11
Tommy Smith 7-4-1
Paul Schaeffer15-29-5
Ken Robinson 18-14 -0
Paul Schaeffer34-34-5
Jacky Moran 1-4-0
Ben Valentine 38-6-2
Jack Cooling 10-12-2
Johnny Clements 17-10-1

13 fights 6 opponents ,with winning records
Then he drew with Arthur Ginger Sadd

Look at the records of the men he beat above,if he had any pretensions of winning a British title shouldn't he have been expected to beat them?:think

Ernie Roderick has wins over
Jack Kid Berg
Harry Mizler
Vince Hawkins
Ginger Sadd [Gilroys only note worthy victim]
Omar Kouidri
Eric Boonx2
Arthur Danahar
Jake Kilrain

Roderick won British titles at Welter & Middleweight,his resume shits all over Gilroy's for quality.

 

You keep saying he made weight for Cerdan. What weight did he have to kill himself to make that was so unbelievable?? He made 173, the same weight he was for Wood**** (which you claim he was too small for, did he kill himself to make weight for the HW Wood****? Was that why he lost? Because Wood****s people FORCED him to weigh in at 173???

Im still waiting for you to identify where your report of Gilroy-Wood**** 1 originates.

You keep acting like there was this massive far reaching conspiracy to exclude Gilroy and I have yet to have you ever logically explain why. You say he was a thorn in "their" side. Whose? Youre talking about a guy who got beat every time he stepped up and yet you act like he had everyone running scared... Its silly.

 

If you have all this referenced stuff and inside info, why don't you flesh out the victories for Gilroy that Boxrec are missing?

I've listed Gilroy's winning streaks and the decidedly underwhelming records of the men he was facing most of them did not even have winning records and they include multiple wins over the usual suspects in several cases.

Oh ,on the Cerdan fight read this.


"Marcel Cerdan, 161 1/4, of Morocco, the French and European middleweight champion knocked out Bert Gilroy, 173, of Scotland Tuesday night in the 4th round of their scheduled 10 round bout after flooring him seven times. Cerdan sent Gilroy down for the full count at 2:18 of the 4th round in the non-title bout before 1500 fans at Seymour Hall. Gilroy, who outweighed Cerdan by 11 3/4 pounds, was unable to take advantage of the extra poundage. Cerdan sent Gilroy to the canvas four times in the 1st round, once in the 2nd, once in the 3rd and once in the 4th." -United Press
You missed a knockdown in the first round.
I make that SEVEN TIMES.

Sadd was not world rated when Gilroy beat him, something you've claimed a couple of times in your fan post on other sites, he hadnt been rated for 2 years and then only very briefly. he was actually in a losing slump both times when Gilroy beat him

In 1940 Sadd lost to Gilroy,Sadd hadn't won any of his last 4 fights
In1942 they met again, Sadd had won just 1 of his last 5 fights and that over 1-0-0 Reg Andrews in a gimme.

Sadd is the best fighter Gilroy beat.

Something else that gets trumpeted is that,
" Gilroy had a 41 fight winning streak from mid 1937 until 1943."


Well actually no he didn't.

From June 1937 until he had a March 1938 he had a 13 fight winning streak then he drew with Bushman Dempster who had the imposing record of 3-16-0!

The from April1938 until June 1939 he won a further 13 fights, then he drew with Ginger Sadd

From Nov 1939 until Dec1942 he won a further 11 fights then he drew with Jack Hyams won 2 more then lost to Jim Berry
Even if we "Blanked ," [ your word,] his 3 draws out that would be 39 wins not 41.
So wrong again!

I'm not a politician I'm a realist, and at 65 I'm BULL**** PROOF.

 

The report of the Wood**** fight differs significantly from the one I found and posted.


"The venue was Leicester’s De Montfort Hall again, against another Scottish champion, Bert Gilroy. For the first time in his professional career, Bruce felt the displeasure of a crowd disagreeing with a decision. The fight was a good one and both men acquitted themselves well, but in the sixth round, Gilroy went down after a savage right to the jaw. He took his time getting himself together but misjudged it and the time keeper counted ten and out just as he was getting to his feet to continue. The referee, Jack Hart, followed the rule that a boxer must be ready to defend himself by the end of the count, but the crowd disagreed and Gilroy’s corner protested. The result would have been inevitable as Bruce was winning on points and in terms of dominating the fight by that stage, but it soured the atmosphere somewhat."