Marciano v Walcott 2 Revisited

At first, everyone was shocked and confused. Was the fight really over? The crowd instantly went into an uproar and started to boo, especially the ones that had paid over $50 for a ringside seat. The fans in the upper seats, unable to hear the count, assumed that Walcott had gotten up in time. They too were stunned and outraged when they realized that the fight was over so quickly. Jersey Joe turned and calmly walked to his corner. Felix, in a rage, was yelling that the referee had only counted to nine. Walcott then turned around and shot the referee a shocked look, banged his gloves together and stomped his feet. Walcott then said to Sikora, “Nine, you only counted to nine.” Sikora replied, “No Joe, you got a full ten count, the fight is over.” In a moment, the ring was flooded with boxing officials who were trying to figure out what just had happened. Felix and Walcott’s handlers were quickly in the ring as well. The crowd was angry and booing loudly. Florio was talking with the referee, telling him his stopwatch showed that Jersey Joe was up at nine. Sikora told Florio that Walcott was given a full count and then yelled at Dan to get out of the ring.

As the chaos subsided in the ring, the fighters made their way to their dressing rooms. The disappointed and angry fans slowly left the arena, most of them thinking that they had just witnessed a fixed fight.

Interviewed shortly after arriving at his room, Rocky said, “At first I thought he would get up and was surprised when he didn’t. Then I took a good look at him and I could see that his eyes were glassy, I knew then that he was finished.”6 After thinking it over, Rocky conceded that the blow was probably the best Sunday punch he had ever thrown, better than the head-snapping right cross to Walcott’s chin that had chilled the veteran boxer in the 13th round in Philadelphia. Rocky’s trainer Charley Goldman added that Rocky threw three or four loops and then ended matters by shortening his punches, and Walcott went down from a tremendous right uppercut thrown at almost the same time as a left hook.

In Walcott’s dressing room, Felix was so furious that it was feared he would suffer another heart attack. “I was robbed in New York in 1948 when we beat Joe Louis and lost the decision, but I never saw no robbery like tonight,” said an irate Felix to a group of reporters. “The referee wanted to count Joe out so bad he counted 2-4-6-8-10, pushed him down and said the fight is over. Joe knew what he was doing. He was looking at my corner for instructions.” Walcott then replied, “I wasn’t hurt at no time. I could have gotten up at the count of two. But I was looking at Felix and he told me to stay down. I never heard the referee count past seven; it’s the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of.” A depressed Jersey Joe then asked to be left alone.

The next day, as thousands of angry fans jammed the switchboards of their local newspapers to complain about the fight, Jersey Joe issued a statement: “It was unfair to the entire boxing world, to those at ringside and to those who saw it on television and heard it on the radio. And above all it was unfair to me to have the fight end in this manner after the 24 years that I put in boxing.” With that, Bocchicchio and his lawyer filed a formal complaint, citing that the count was too fast.

An investigation into the fight began a few days later. Bocchicchio and the Illinois Athletic Commission sat down, donned 3-D glasses, and watched a three-dimensional version of the fight. The claims that Jersey Joe was given a fast or short count were quickly disproven. The film of the fight clearly showed that Walcott was given a full ten count. Bocchicchio’s claim that referee Sikora pushed Walcott down were also disproven. The simple fact was that Jersey Joe just didn’t get up in time; but why? The first and most widely believed theory why Walcott didn’t get up in time was that Jersey Joe took a dive; in other words, the fight was fixed. Did Walcott and Felix have a deal lined up to fatten Walcott’s nest egg? Did they place a huge bet at 3-to-1 odds, thus making a ton of money? Most casual fans felt that the fight was fixed. On the other hand, most knowledgeable boxing people didn’t believe that. According to former light-heavyweight champion Tommy Loughran, if the fight had been fixed, “Jersey Joe would have assumed another posture. He would have gone down flat on his back or stomach, agonizing a bit, and listening to the full count.”

A second theory was that Jersey Joe was knocked out. Was Rocky’s blow hard enough to knock out Jersey Joe? According to Marciano, the punch was better than the punch he hit Walcott with to knock him out in their first fight. “It was the right that got him. It traveled further and was sharper than the one in Philadelphia. I felt when it landed he had to go down. I knew he went down pretty good. I knew it hurt him. I don’t think he quit.” Referee Frank Sikora may have said it best: “Don’t let anybody tell you Walcott didn’t get hit. It may not have shown on television, but believe me I was the closest man seeing that punch and it was a knockout punch. I picked up the count at three and I yelled into his ear, not even two feet away. He couldn’t even get up at eleven, and he was shaky when he got up. I saw his eyes they were glassy.”

Another theory was that Jersey Joe misjudged the count and got up to late. “He heard the count but I think he was working too hard watching his corner to hear it,” said referee Sikora. Walcott stated to some reporters that he thought he had gotten up at seven, to others he said he thought he had gotten up at nine. Perhaps in the confusion of the moment Jersey Joe had lost count. Or perhaps he had received bad advice from Bocchicchio. While Walcott sat on the canvas he looked to his corner, at times. Bocchicchio waved his hands indicating to Jersey Joe to stay down. Felix said, “Walcott was ok; he was watching me for instructions. When I thought that the count had reached eight I signaled for Joe to get up, which you saw he did with no trouble.” The miscalculation, then, may have been Bocchicchios, not Jersey Joe’s.

Yet another theory was that Jersey Joe had quit. Did the tough veteran simply quit? Did the memories of his first fight with Rocky and the brutal knockout cause Jersey Joe to abruptly become afraid to fight? It’s possible. Some felt that Walcott was not mentally ready to fight Rocky again. As Florio later said, Joe froze up in the last twenty-four hours. Dan had tried all day to get him to talk fight, tactics, punches, anything. Buy Joe wouldn’t talk. The guy was through before he went into the ring.

Although the talk about the fight and what really happened went on for years, the issue was never resolved. Years later, Walcott would simply say that he just lost count. As for quitting, by the following June it was being reported that Walcott would challenge the winner of the Marciano-LaStarza fight. In a phone interview from his home in Mt. Ephraim, New Jersey, Felix said, “As for Walcott I am not retiring him. He can’t quit now, not after that fiasco in Chicago. Joe’s got to prove to the fight public that he was robbed.” When asked how ex-champion Walcott felt about fighting again, Bocchicchio said, “Well you know he has always done most anything that I’ve asked of him. He and I are going to discuss the matter further in the next few days.”

Talk of Jersey Joe fighting again went on for some time, but ultimately the second Marciano fight was his last fight. He was being pressured by his wife Lydia and his kids to honor the promise he made before the rematch that, win, lose or draw he would retire.

For a while Walcott’s reputation suffered because of the fight. In the words of sportswriter Matt Ring, “Walcott sacrificed the prestige and sentimental favor he had built up with many gallant fights over the past eight years.”

(by james curl - walcott biography)

 

I would say Walcott was more like Patterson in the Liston fights. He trained, he showed up, but the appetite wasn't there once the bell rang.

 

Moore could have been stopped in the 1st but wound up winning.

 

He had a torrid time in the first fight. Threw everything he had at him and the Rock just coming at him stronger and stronger.

He knew he wasn't going to win when Rock made good on his word not to spend 15 rounds in a fight when you can knock the guy out in one.
Rock was bull dozing him, Joe sat it out for his own safety.

 

The one thing which is obvious on the film is that Walcott never looks at all at the referee to follow his count, nor does he seem to react to anything. He just stares blankly ahead (or possibly at his corner).

Other than that, hard to say what to read into it. I think it is consistent with being in a daze, and my take is he seemed confused when he got up and it was only later that he began making a fuss.

*in the first Louis-Conn fight, Conn rolls into a sitting position-much like Walcott was in-at the count of six and then just stares blankly like Walcott while he is counted out. Conn had been hit with a ton of punches so there was no doubt he was knocked out.

 

I don't know about that, Walcott wasn't that ripped against Layne and that was before he became champion. Walcott was always more ripped on a bad day than Liston on a good day. He was always a specimen. Actually Liston looked a bit better toned in the Ali rematch than the Miami fight. ALI looked more toned for Holmes than Spinks. How much muscle tone did Braddock have beating Baer? Schmeling did not look as toned for his rematch with Louis. Spinks against Tyson? In fact, thinking of all the examples muscle tone is not always much of a gauge for one round blow outs. The loser always appears softer. Maybe its more psychological than physical? I really don't know.

 

Maybe Walcott was reverting to his earlier spoiling style for his gameplan in the rematch? Who knows? I don't think Schmeling landed 2 punches against Louis in their one rounder. It does not mean Walcott and Schmeling planned to fold up in one round.

Walcott did not take the initiative from the off like he did in the first fight. That is a fact. But does that mean he did not plan to win or does that mean he wanted to try something else?

 

I've always believed Walcott took a dive.

The mob/IBC was proud Marciano had won the title. But Rocky had been down himself and was well-behind on the cards when he managed to score a one-punch knock out of Walcott in their first fight. Many at the time thought it was kind of a lucky punch.

Yet, for some reason, Al Weill, Marciano's manager and the IBC matchmaker, decided to give Walcott a return bout and they agreed to pay Joe far mare than Rocky was expected to make.

In the end, Jersey Joe was paid a quarter of a million dollars for the fight. Marciano's purse was $166,000 and he had to give half of everything he made to Al Weill (so Rocky's share came to a little more than $80,000).

If Rocky had barely won the first fight, and the IBC/Mob was so glad he was the new champ, why would they give the former champ who was beating him a rematch in the first place and, on top of that, pay Joe MORE than Rocky? (I believe it was the most Walcott ever made for a fight.)

Why not just fight someone else? Marciano's manager was the IBC matchmaker. He could make any fight he wanted. And if a commission had ordered them to fight a rematch with Walcott, which no commission did, all Weill had to do was offer Walcott so little money he doesn't take the fight. (There's a long history in boxing of people doing that.)

What you don't do is offer the former champ who had floored and was beating your guy an immediate rematch AND MORE than the new champ you're so proud of.

It didn't make sense ... until Walcott went down in the first and "missed" the count on his way up.

Then it made perfect sense. They paid off Walcott.

Rocky's "lucky" win in their first fight was put aside by his one-round victory in the rematch, the mobsters were happy, and old Jersey Joe got to retire with a big payday.

And Walcott never got his story straight. In the ring, he complains that he's up in time. In the dressing room, he says he was hit so hard he couldn't remember going down. If it looked like he took a dive, which it did, they could've held his purse. So the Walcott camp filed a complaint saying it was a quick count.

I just never bought any of it.

 

The rematch was in the contract when the first fight was made. This was the rematch clause era. The champion was protected under contract because in event he lost he gets the rematch and often the rematch percentages were contracted to be the same way around for the second fight. This explains how Walcott got the bigger purse in both fights, it's just what Marcianos people agreed to in order to get the fight in the first place. Walcott himself had to honour a rematch with Charles immediately after winning the crown under simular circumstances. Same with ingo v patterson. Patterson v Liston. ALI v Liston. The rematch clause was rife back then.

Marciano beat Walcott in the rematch as fairly as Liston beat Patterson. The Patterson wins made Sonny. yet Patterson was no better in either fight than Walcott was against Rocky in the rematch.

 

Patterson may have been 27 but he was knocked down 9 times over 14 rounds in his three fights with ingo. He had not fought for nine months the first time he met Liston and the second time Floyd had one losing round of experience in 19 months. It is not really the best prep is it? Ring inactivity killed the primes of Floyd and Sonny.