Is Bob Fitzsimmons Top 5 P4P?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fitz won three world titles ,middle,heavy and lhvy , an astonishing feat, but the opposition did not have a great deal of depth to it,does he make the cut ,or does the shallowness of the pool he was swimming in prevent him becoming top five?
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Depends on criteria.

    If you go off accomplishments within an era, or domination of an era he really has to be amongst the very elite.

    Resume can be questioned but only by those who look into it enough I guess.

    H2H is harder to say. He had the power to beat any one in history but it's doubtful he has the ability to be favoured over the more modern protagonist.
     
  3. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    His claim for world championship title at middleweight is debatable, it's more like an American version only. Light heavyweight division was basically non-existent.
     
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He has to rate up there.
     
  5. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    F*uck no.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's very reasonable to make him top 5 p4p. A lock for the top ten I think.
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Who had a stronger MW claim?
     
  8. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why so aggressively posted
     
  9. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The question would be "based on what could he claim the world championship title?" McCoy-Creedon has much stronger credentials to be considered the first world middleweight championship bout under MoQ rules.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Upon what do you base the notion that bob's claim isn't legit?

    Nonpareil was very well respected in his era and the loss prior to Fitz was basically a foul at a catch weight wasn't it?
     
  11. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    A lock for the top ten. I would put at 5-7... uncanny power for a man his size, almost unparalleled.
     
  13. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fitzsimmons lost the fight for the Australian middleweight title (fix or not, is irrelevant). Dempsey didn't beat best fighters from other continents to claim the world championship title. Some experts still considered Dempsey and, consequently, Fitz, the world champion, but that was a typical egocentric American view, they considered Dempsey the best middleweight out there, so they didn't think he needed to prove that by actually meeting the champions of England or Australia or South Africa. Associated Press writer, for example, after his win over Dempsey called Fitz the middleweight champion of America and Australia, although based on what there was involved the Australian title he didn't clarify. Some called Fitz the "first middleweight in the world", which is not the same as world champ, but rather considered the best middleweight in the world, potentially, in their opinion. Some wrote "middleweight champ" without ever mentioning word "world" in their report.
    McCoy previously had beaten Tommy Ryan for American championship and Bill Doherty for South African championship.
    Creedon previously had beaten Frank Craig, the British champion.
    While McCoy didn't beat Australian Billy Edwards, who was the Australian champion at the time, both Creedon and Doherty were former Australian champions, who didn't lose their title in the ring, but vacated it.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    What about Fitz's victory over Creedon in 1894?

    The Police Gazette mentions it as being for the middleweight championship.
     
  15. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Place him where you like. There's an argument that no other fighter so perfectly captured the essence of pound-for-pound. While Greb dominated bigger men, Fitzsimmons destroyed them. Victories against Gus Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey read like misprints.

    A devastating puncher, yes, but only because of the talent which sharpened his aim.