Bernard Hopkins vs James Toney: Who Ranks Higher

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by sas6789, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. Tancred

    Tancred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hopkins
     
  2. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    You have a source for that?
     
  3. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    Quality of opposition: Toney
    Consistency: Hopkins
    Accomplishments: Hopkins
     
  4. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    There probably some out there but god knows where, it's been over a decade and it's unlikely to be on the first page of any google search.

    It was well documented at the time. From memory the fight was scheduled and all signed for August 2003. Hopkins had a minimum guaranteed purse of 3.5 million, Toney 2 million, it was for Toney's cruiser title but Hopkins was to come in at 175lbs.

    King then said HBO were not willing to pay enough to cover their minimum purses and tried to cut their purses. Toney agreed but Hopkins refused. Not surprising when you consider how Hopkins was screwed by promoters early on in his career, King is known for being shady and Hopkins was jumping 3 weights and was going to be giving up at least 15lbs.

    Toney went on to fight Holyfield instead.
     
  5. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No way can anyone blame Hopkins for not fighting Toney. Toney was too indisciplined to stay at his proper weight. No way a guy his size should be a Cruiser or Heavy. It is a big shame that two masters of boxing couldn't face each other, it would have been a very good and technical fight. It would be interesting to see how Hopkins outmuscles Toney and how Toney could out work him close up, as both are masters of that.

    Despite Toney's indiscipline, he went onto face Holyfield at Heavy and outbox him. This just goes to show how skillful Toney was. It was a Toney masterclass.
     
  6. dublynflya

    dublynflya Stand your ground Son!! Full Member

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    :yep
     
  7. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Watch the Toney masterclass v Jirov for the IBF Cruiserweight title in 2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju2NjcycUVc. It shows you how great his skills were. Going from Middleweight and outboxing a tough champion at cruiser is quite amazing. His outboxing a HW legend in Holyfield in 2003 again was even more impressive. Not suprising he was Ring magazine boxer of the year 2003.
     
  8. moparfan

    moparfan ESB's glass jawed fraud Full Member

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    SOURCE:

    http://articles.latimes.com/2003/may/21/sports/sp-boxing21

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2003-06-10-no-toney-hopkins_x.htm
     
  9. Beremith

    Beremith Active Member Full Member

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    Hopkins. No question about it.
     
  10. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    For some reason I cant seem to multi quote?
    Anyway, how you doing Mindreader?
    Nunn was a good win, but Nunn really was known for fighting many former LMWs and WWs. Nunn was a fast talented fighter but Im not convinced about the level of his comp at MW alot of the time.
    Jirov. This one really confuses me. Who did Jirov beat? What were Jirovs top 5 wins?.
    McCallum was debateable and Toney didnt get the win first time, and Johnson was also debateable.
    Im just not sure about Toney
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    James Toney #97
    Bernard Hopkins #51

    So a big dunt in it, like the poll.
     
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Barkley had been blasted out in a round by Benn before Toney fought him. Lets not get too carried away here.
    Nunn was a good win, but Nunn really was known for fighting many former LMWs and WWs. Nunn was a fast talented fighter but Im not convinced about the level of his comp at MW alot of the time.
    Jirov. This one really confuses me. Who did Jirov beat? What were Jirovs top 5 wins?.
    McCallum was debateable and Toney didnt get the win first time, and Johnson was also debateable.
    Didnt Toney fail a couple of tests? Why is this overlooked?
    Im just not sure about Toney
     
  13. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    Hopkins. mainly due to good work in his 40s (but also, as predicted, bad losses in his fading years).

    Sure toney is fighting too but its strictly sub world and hes not winning.

    These two guys are in some ways polar opposites.
     
  14. halbrikj

    halbrikj Member Full Member

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    Hopkins has beaten more quality opponents as of late, but I would have to give the nod to Toney based on the quality of opposition during the first 15 yrs of their careers. Toney had wins over solid middles, super middles and light heavies: Sosa, Nunn, Reggie Johnson, McCallum, Dewitt, Barkley, Hembrick, Charles Williams; cruiser: Vasiliy; and the former heavy champ: Holyfield.

    Bhop on the other hand made his name taking out blown up welterweights, i.e. De La Hoya, Trinidad, Simon Brown.

    Lastly, yes Toney has lost fights, but I still haven't seen him take a beat down yet, although I suppose the same could be said for Hopkins.
     
  15. halbrikj

    halbrikj Member Full Member

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    Also, I think if they had fought at any weight 160 and up, Toney wins.