I completely agree! Leonard did wait until Hagler way past his prime. He only beat Duran when he was out of shape or when he was way past his prime. I never liked him! He was not a coward but he did pull some BS to get an edge.:!:
i didn't call him anything, just stated the facts Leonard has basically admitted to. Leonard on any p4p middleweight list is ridiculous. a career lightweight achieved even more than he did there, fighting a braver fight against a prime Hagler and beat up a mw champ Iran Barkley, who wanted to kill him.
To be honest, boxers aren't the best guys to ask when it comes to historical perspective. I respect his opinion, but there are lots of old-timers Bernard's probably not even aware of that could be included. Ray Leonard is a great, great fighter but nowhere near a great middleweight. SRR is even better but not all that awesome as a middleweight.
Ummm when did people start using p4p associated with certain weight classes ? That defeats the whole purpose of a p4p opinionated list
aahh, how do i say this about such a great fighter ??? Top five , no Bernard sorry , if you put Leonard in there because he beat Hagler then Jones Jr has to go in above you even though he want there for long. Bernard just creeps into the top 10.
He's definitely top 5, I'm surprised he's being so humble and not claimed top 3. Record number of 20 title defences. Champion for over a decade and first undisputed middleweight champion since Hagler 14 years before. Yes the division was weak but he avoided nobody and fought every mandatory and the best available and yes his best wins were welterweights but so were Hagler's and Monzon's and they're top 5.
Ok im not here to argue about how bernard is , the man is 49 and facing the biggest puncher in boxing a true marvel but the middle weight bar is so so high and Bernards high lights are not at 160 , yes he beat Trinidad and Oscar but outside of this was against a pretty green Johnson who had packed in a lot of fights in his four years as a pro but had no amateur experience. Bernard is just about top 10.
That's your opinion which is fine, everyone has different criteria on how to judge a fighters greatness. At worst I'd have Hopkins 6th or maybe even 7th at a push, can't see how you could pick 8 or 9 middleweights above him though.
he's a dreamer there are dozens of Top middleweights and l-hw's from far superior times that kick _uck out him, DOZENS! keep in mind too in the past the 6'1" Hopkins would have been fighting at L-HW and HW just like most of the 5'10" - 6' men fighting at those superior times, you don't do different than the world/people around you, we are all influenced by 'our times', this is why most fighters today fight 2 weight divisions below what they really are. Hopkins 'ring' company would have been the Billy Conn's and such and from better times and in his proper weight divisions he would never have excelled like he's been allowed to today!