why do people think tyson has a better chin than frazier?

Swagdelfadeel, I would appreciate a response to my question in post 11.

 

No, I'd say it's because they had good a defence.

For example. Ali's, McCallum's and Sanchez ability to take a punch was very much about them seeing the punches coming and being able to roll with them. Tyson's and Hagler's ability to take monster punches was in part down to them always keeping their chin on their chest and therefore rarely taking punches cleanly on the chin.

On the other hand, Foreman could be hurt by not only Lyle, but also Ali and Young because he at times had poor balance and left his chin out there. In physical terms he was a monster, though. The timed Lewis was hurt was also in most cases when he was in bad positions defensively. Same with Ali and even more so with Wlad.

 

What good defense? The defense of catching punches with the face?
During his prime when he was quick of foot and hard to hit, Ali's chin was questioned. It wasn't until post exile where he became much easier to hit that he was said to have an iron chin. Almost invariably the guys who get the most acclaim for having "iron chins" are guys with passable to poor defense like Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, Jerry Quarry, Tex Cobb, Ray Mercer, Frazier, Chuvalo, McCall etc. We see them get punched in the head nonstop without going down and some pretend that it is some sort of a virtue. Boxing is the art of hitting without getting hit. The homer simpson defense is not nearly as effcient or aesthetic, unless the goal is to have an alarmingly short career, badly slur your words by 40 and be a statistic for Pugilistic dementia.

 

What is MEANT by a good chin, seemingly so basic, must be defined.

Strictly speaking I believe it is how much punishment you can take.
But you can make a case that the rolling & related minimizing of the blows is also part of it-it comes down to whether measuring how you react to blows controlling for defensive factors, OR add in adjustments to minimize impact.

Tyson did not hit as hard as a few, but some comments about who hit harder or how hard hisFrazier's opponents hit are dubious. Also KOs are not merely about pure blunt force trauma.

A couple of specific corrections: Bob Foster was amongst the hardest LHW hitters, not at all at HW. Foreman was prime for one Frazier fight. Additionally he had to hang on against ingo to avoid further damage, his autobuigraphy (ghost written) shows this he was quite hurt, & the 3 KD rule would have ended the fight.

PrimeFrazier was rocked or dropped by a fair #. Some not big punchers, & with single shots, like (lucky officiating) Ali in #2.

I prefer Frazier as a man & would root for him vs. Tyson.
Frazier just was not as equipped to handle BIG shots.
Endurance, handling punishment, heart: better than Tyson.

Getting up repeatedly is impressive: more so not being dropped a 1/2 dozen times before a fight is called.

Tyson, way past prime, took MANY bombs from bigger hitters than most all of Frazier's competition, including numerous onerous flush shots from Lewis. Who likely hit close to Foreman's power (yet not as hard).

 

Now with respect, this statement is misguided:

"I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer".

Nah man, please reconsider.

That is nothing but reactionary emotional thinking.
If you are fair & balanced, including internally, no need to go to the opposite extreme.
WE shape our habitual reactions & default emotions by taking responsibility for CHOOSING them. Not innocent victims who as autonomans must get enraged. When I consider how some I know & say an MLK might react, i can temper my unnecessary or self indulgent feelings, even if tied up in self-righteousness.

Focus on "driven nothing but hate & anger, which I don't like".

That shows the problem, a fevered tendency to be swayed by really what are personal volatile emotions. The issue is the TENDENCY towards hate & anger. Many have massive provocations of MEANINGFUL, non-theoretical issues, & refrain from such toxic reactions. We train the brain towards love, hate, peace or tumult.

The responsibility lies with us. We react as we allow oursslves to, or shape & nurture a less enraged, externally scapegoating braiaiaiaian.

Thanks for listening.

 

Many of those you mentioned had a good defense. And what seemed like an iron chin was in large part being braced for the punch and being in balance.

Ali would never have taken the shots he took from Shavers and others if he didn't see the punch coming and rolled with it.

That's why Cooper hurt him so badly. Ali was caught by surprise with his chin up. And that's why people thought he had a poor chin, when in fact the problem was that he had been reckless and unfocussed in that situation.

Many here seem like you to have problem distinguishing those two.

 

Agree. Frazier was as tough as they come, won a gold medal, came home
to no job no help. I believe he worked with his dad as a laborer growing up and his dad had an accident and lost an arm or something. However yes
Frazier kept getting up and took a rematch with Foreman, yes hes that tough. Tyson took all those shots from Douglass before getting stopped,
flush shots from Lewis whose right hand was ridiculous, two wars with Ruddock, Bruno, etc. Mike could be stunned or hurt but to KO him you had to beat the **** out of him all night. Mike's chin was better I believe. No shame in Foreman losses though.

 

How convinced are you he would go down in the first place? You can't generalise from the Douglas knockout because he was taking a beating round after round.

My argument is simply that I think Tyson had the better chin because his was tested by heavier hitters e.g. Ruddock, Bruno, Lewis etc.

 

You can't use Lewis as part of that example because He knocked him out. Bruno too, the only time Bruno hit him clean he had him on roller skates.

 

Mike Tyson absorbed the artillery of Bonecrusher Smith, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock and a handful of other guys who could crack without kissing the canvas. Joe Frazier was decked twice by Oscar Bonavena and was used to mop the floor by George Foreman. Does this guarantee that Tyson had a better chin? No. But its enough to make a reasonable case.

 

Don't understand you lot on here. Most of you are saying Fraizer always got back up therefore he doesn't have a weak chin. Using that logic, Khan doesn't have a weak chin...

 

This sensible and logical conclusion will not be welcomed.:bart

 

Same with Floyd Patterson its a very strange logic to me.
My opinion is if your chin was that good ,you wouldn't be down in the first place,seems fairly obvious to me.:huh
Seems someone has a fixation with Smokin Joe .