Do Lewis' win over Tyson and Calzaghe's over RJJ hold any credibility?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by WillRose_, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. Rangersfan1982

    Rangersfan1982 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Prime Lewis beats prime Tyson. Prime Jones beats prime Calzaghe.
     
  2. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    having said that shot2**** Jones still dropped Calzaghe in round 1, giving us an inkling of how the fight would have transpired if jones was prime, a possible very early stoppage = explaining why Calzaghe waited till jones started his eurobum tour in order to challenge him, Joe didn't want to add an early stoppage loss to his resume.


    now, shot Tyson never got anywhere near dropping lewis.
     
  3. LordSouness

    LordSouness Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    691
    Lennox Lewis is a year older than Mike Tyson. That Mike Tyson peaked before Lewis made his professional debut is hardly Lewis' fault.

    There's no point in time when both at world level, when Lewis wouldn't have beat Tyson. Prime for prime, Lewis would have been too good for him too.

    As with Calzaghe, again, it's hardly like peak Calzaghe fought weakest Roy Jones either. People tend to only view these one way. If they like RJJ, they simply substitute the best RJJ in to fight the version of Calzaghe he fought - not sure how that can be justified as an argument?

    For the record, I think it's close to a 50/50 fight at their primes - perhaps just in favour of RJJ. Styles make fights - Calzaghe throws so many punches that he's a handful for any version of Jones in my opinion.
     
  4. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    54,515
    Likes Received:
    121

    :lol:

    And no the fights were meaningless that's like counting. Holmes win over Ali ..They beat the names not the fighters!
     
  5. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    14,937
    Likes Received:
    12,192
    fixed
     
  6. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028

    its not fixed its an opposite opinion of yours.
     
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028

    hardly, its just pitting prime joe calzaghes volume of inaccurate but ineffective slaps with roys accurate, effective knockout blows at speed.

    joe getting floored whilst postprime by shot2**** jones has to mean he gets floored more hes prime against prime jones.

    however its academic because we know for sure that joe purposely waited for the best to fade to what he thought was shot, before beating his chest and challenging them, in order to avoid losses. NOone can argue with this because IT IS WAHT HE DID IN REAL LIFE.
     
  8. energie

    energie Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,510
    Likes Received:
    22
    none what so ever
     
  9. RememberingC.S.

    RememberingC.S. Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    10,493
    Likes Received:
    89
    Slappy Joe was shot when he fought RoidJJ.
     
  10. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    34,221
    Likes Received:
    5,874
    They were top 10 fighters in their divisions at the time so I can't call them terrible wins, but Mike and Roy couldn't live up to their name value at that point. They were simply too far gone.

    So, yes, you can call the wins credible in the fact it was a rated opponent, but the value doesn't match up at all with what a win over younger versions of Roy or Mike would've.
     
  11. assasin

    assasin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    16,315
    Likes Received:
    13
    i consider them to be good wins. they're not great or anything, like they would have been if they were both at their best. but still good.

    both Tyson and Jones were still top ten when the fights happened.

    Tyson around that time had beaten Golota (someone who would go on to beat both Byrd and Ruiz only to get stiffed on the cards) and would have beaten a fighter like Ruiz if not for him being with Don King, so it was never going to happen. so he was still capable at World level. not forgetting that Lewis himself was in his second to last fight when going in.

    Jones wouldn't have had the success that Tyson would have, had he fought the top ten LHW's, but would have beaten at least a couple of them. Calzaghe was in his final fight when they got it on.

    you can't judge the versions of Jones and Tyson to their best versions, as it wouldn't allow people to be fair in their assessments. judge them on whether they were still good fighters at the time to get a better reading of events. they were, so they're good wins at the very least. especially when you factor in that Lewis and Calzaghe were at the very end of their careers also.
     
  12. BOGART

    BOGART Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    8,903
    Likes Received:
    259
    Lewis's win over Tyson was still a semi-good win for Lewis.

    Obviously it wasn't a peak Tyson in there and Lewis shouldn't get nearly the credit Douglas or even Holyfield get for beating Tyson.

    But its not what Tyson wasn't when he fought Lewis but what he was.

    Tyson was still rated a top 10 fighter with major league power. At the time he fought Lewis he was still running right through fringe contenders like Golota, Entienne, and Savareese.

    That won't match Tyson at his peak but when everything is added up its still enough to say he belonged in the top 10 which makes it a nice enough win for Lewis.
     
  13. Daddy

    Daddy Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    355
    Not one bit. But both fights put allot of asses in the seats and made nice revenue for all 4 fighters.
     
  14. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Messages:
    9,475
    Likes Received:
    83
    who at heavy could he have beaten? he saw a chance to knock off one of the worst titleists ever(ruiz) and took it. then ran like a thief in the night, out of the division.
     
  15. Staminakills

    Staminakills Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15,329
    Likes Received:
    2,095
    Of course they do.

    Lewis would've destroyed any version of Tyson. Barring tyson catching him dead cold in the first few minutes. And super Joe would've been a total nightmare for any version of Jones too