Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

wow Elroy is still triyng to flog his 'fat people n bodybuilders are the best boxers' theory.

 

Those guys were slow footed, poor on defense, didn't have a jab, and weren't close to skill level. Might as well compare a 4-carat lump of coal to a diamond and just say they are the same size.

Vitali is a puncher. Danny Williams who fought Tyson and Vitali said the power was even ( D Williams ). Julius Francis who fought both Tyson and Vitali said Vitali hit harder after Vitali Ko'd him in two rounds. Briggs who fought Foreman said Vitali hit harder. Universum who managed both Wlad and Vitali said Vitali hit harder.

Who hit harder can be shades of grey, but I think its safe to Say Vitali hit as hard or harder than Schemling who after landing a counter right had Louis on ***** street. Other fighters like Tommy Farr stunned Louis.

But power aside, Louis had trouble with good jabbers and movers. That is Vitali. Vitali fought many fast handed fighters. None of them landed much on him. He was a master of distance with good timing and could land or counter at awkward angles. Shuffling Joe would be out of range too often, and with his low guard, and stick your chin forward type of stance....Vitali wins this one. Likely late and up on points.

 

woah, slow down there. That's world champions you are addressing. They had excellent skills or they wouldn't have been champs of the whole freaking globe.

Or was the whole world simply slower footed, poorer in defence. less skilled than them.
Compare to the vast majority of Vitmans victims who have been ultra fat slow boys who gass out fast.

Pause. Think.

 

Buddy Bear and Abe Simon were huge, they were also not champions , not very skilled and slow. I was responding to that.

Carnera was a champion, but he was beaten a few times by much smaller men. If Carnera had a good jab, and a bit more power he would have been tough to beat. But he did not, and could not take punches to the jaw.

 

Makes me sad when I see Fighting Weight's old posts. Miss that guy.

 

oh sure, I thought you meant brother Baer, but respect to the Big C as u say.

prime Wlad before he started jab and run.

 

And guys as small and predictable as Schmeling and Marciano knocked Louis the fukk out.

So are we done picking their worst performances and ready to move onto their best?

 

I think Vitali could fight with the best and hold his own and offer a difficult challenge but in Joe Louis we are talking about the very best counter puncher. Louis showed he could handle size and Vitali would be a tough battle but my thinking is Louis does damage and cause cuts and combo's for a late stop in the corner or RSC TKO along the ropes from 9 to 15

 

That's your opinion and thank god we don't all think alike ,but what of the opinion that vitali never beat a elite level skilled fighter surely that's just a fair opinion. When he suffered a bad cut against Lewis did he go all out for a KO no he didn't because it wasn't in him to do so . Against Byrd did he go out move about to coast to a points victory no he didn't . On both occasions he faced adversity and lost . I actually think vitali is a good fighter better than his brother for me but let's be honest when his backs against the wall and he's in the trenches he's 0-2

 

Vitali would massacre him... It would look as bad, maybe even worse than the Adamek fight. It would look like a father beating the **** out of his teenage son.

 

Injuries happen. Vitali was beating a prime Byrd with one good arm, and he showed plenty of courage and was also ahead of Lewis on points 4-2. This is how he responded. If the Byrd fight was for higher stakes later in his career, or Vitali had a better corner, he might finish the Byrd fight. He didn't have Angelo Dundee working his corner ya know.

Lewis declined the re-match.

Just imagine he he didn't tear a ligament in his shoulder. Calling a loss to a fluke injury or cut ( un-related ) in a fantasy fight is pretty silly. Vitali was only cut seriously once in a long ring career. In fact Louis was cut more often ( just not as bad ) and swollen worse than Vitali ever was.

I could say Louis had his back against the wall in the first Schemling fight, the Charles fight, and the Marciano fight. He's 0-3 when behind / facing adveristy, and I would argue these are the best three fighters he fought.

 

It may have been as a lot to do with the way Byrd made Vits swing at air a lot too, though injuries happen true,

so why did he quit?

vitali wasn't defending himself properly. that why he got torn to pieces.


Trruth is, Lewis and Byrd are two of the most skilled opponents Vits faced, and is it really a coincidence that Vitali sprouts huge menstruating vaginas only when he facing highly skilled opposition?

might means nothing. no other world champion needs to rely on might - they DID. Lewis and Louis did, for instance.

who the hell does defend a world title against someone pretty good at 38+?

 

which schmeling did Louis fail to rematch and beat? Schmeling the 'small and predictable' ex world HW champion? or another schmeling - let me know.

I tell you what YOU are doing - picking an old retired version of Louis vs prime Marciano which was a great performance given his weakened state. Why don't you pick a case of prime Louis getting beat and running scared from the rematch?

THen and only then do you have a case.

 

It had nothing to do with a swing and miss

Vitlai is a sports doctor. He said his arm went numb, and he feared his career would be in jeopardy if he pressed on. A tough thing to ponder when your on the way up. HBO reported the arm was hurt in round three.

The truth is he was beating these two with a torn shoulder and bad cut. Throw out the flukes and he wins both fights. Like I said, Lewis knew better than to take the re-match. I don't think Bryd would have a ghost of a chance if there was a re-match. In addition Vitali took both fights on 2 weeks notice.

We are talking about a man who was never behind on the score cards, never was floored, and won most of his fight with ease. Louis? Sure he was great. He was also floored by crude fighter in Galento, gave up many rounds to smaller men ( Could ist a few ), and was almost upset by a man under 170 pounds ( Conn ). Unlike Vitali Louis has no excuses in these matches

Care to digest those apples?

 

'nothing to do' is rather too strong, inferring you know for sure. it may be to do with it, its certainly not a definite 'nothing to do'.
Reaching for absolutes weakens your argument.

he has a doctorate in sports science. That's not the same thing AT ALL as being a sports doctor, which directly suggests a medical degree and some form of self diagnosis.

However anyone with some commonsense might be perturbed with their arm going numb, for sure, so point taken.
However again, it is you who claimed he couldda wouldda shoudda gone on with better team support, not me. So in your view, Vitali used his expert sports knowedge to come to the wrong decision about quitting.
some use his sports doctorate turned out to be if it made him do the wrong thing. Someone WITHOUT a sports doctorate might not have quit, and would go on to record a win...!?!

the truth is he lost both fights. What part of the word loss do you not get?

soo...old Lewis knew better than to take a rematch at 38 against the 2nd best HW of the next decade....an age when everyones retired or thinking about it....
but....prime Vitali didn't know better when he DIDNT rematch the diminutive Byrd.

Are you reading what you write before you post?

Yes - this is what it amounts to - prime Vitali lost twice and ran from a rematch with his prime LHW opponent.
prime Louis lost once, and avenged it, never losing again until a decade plus later when he was a washed up title-less retired has been getting done over for 'tax evasion' or some other crime.