Bert Gilroy ranked with Apostoli - ahead of LaMotta - in 1942

Which means Gilroy was rated at best 12 in the world and quite likely (given some of the other names in group 2) far below that down to 33...

You make a big deal of Gilroy being rated ahead of LaMotta in 1942 but to put that in context Gilroy had been fighting professionally for 9 years at this time. These ratings were compiled at the end of 1941/beginning of 1942. LaMotta turned pro in March 1941 after a very short amateur career. So if it impresses you that Gilroy was rated ahead of a just starting out LaMotta that hadnt been a pro for a full year and had yet to defeat a single rated fighter (in fact hed only had three 10 round bouts so far) then we can agree that your standards for greatness are much lower than mine.

Its always funny to me the lengths to which Jim and his supporters (all three of them) will go to try to qualify Gilroy's ability yet when you look at it logically what is supposed to impress you is really just the mark of an also ran.

 

No one thinks Gilroy was mediocre.

They dispute that he was majorly avoided becaise he was a truly incredible fighter and that his opponents were diamomds in the rough talents that were much better than history tells us.

Clearly a bloody good fighter though was Gilroy.

 

This particular fighter seems to crop up on a lot of boxing forums...

Regardless, the Ring doesn't actually describe Gilroy as world class; it has him on a third tier list with 20 other names. The company he's keeping: Big Boy Hogue, Joe Sutka, Howell King, Carmen Notch and so on, is not exactly a murderers' row.

That Apostoli is there is more a reflection of where he was at the time, with recent losses to Conn, Zale, Garcia etc, and he never contended for anything again. Jack Hyams is named there too, and he was never more than a domestic level fighter whose career peak was winning a British area title.

 

You need to get over yourself. Both Klompton and Berlenbach have provided fair rebuttals to your claims, and I have explained what the dissenters actually tend to say.

You are pushing an agenda that cannot be backed up. What you have provided only reaffirms what the so-called 'Gilroy deniers' think about him anyway; that he was a good fighter.

 

That is your "interpretation," it isn't stated.And it's wrong!

What its states is that 15 middleweights were rated over the group that Gilroy is in. Now go and look at who is in that group of 22 fighters
Here are half of them
Milt Aron [welterweight]won65 lost 13 never scaled 160lbs
Raul Carrabantes [welterweight]won 34 lost 15
Henry Chmielewski lost half his fights
Al Gilbert won 28 fights lost 31
Howell King won 44 lost 23
Deacon Logan won 37 lost25
Ossie Stewart won 39 lost 9
Lou Shwartz won 24 lost 20
Al Wardlow won 8 lost 2
Carmen Notch [welterweight] won48 lost 23
Paulie Walker [welterweight] won70,lost 25

Now, hand on heart, after looking up who those 11 beat, and who beat them, I guarantee you will not say any of them were world class or anywhere near it, yet they are rated on a par with Gilroy!
Therefore there can only be one logical conclusion as to Gilroy's status.
The best you can claim for them is that they were good journeymen and that includes Gilroy!
Apostoli was sliding by 1941 he had been brutally beaten by Garcia ,and stopped by Bettina ,floored 3 times in an emphatic loss to Zale. In the rest of his career he would manage just one win over a class fighter .

Bottom line
Gilroy was never world class and never beat a world class fighter , the best he could manage was a Scottish area title and that over dismal opposition. Look it up!

Sorry if it bothers you, but you know what they say:

The truth hurts!

 

You say that the Ring ranked Gilroy on par with Apostoli. Thats not necessarily true. That list is ranked in alphabetical order, nothing more. Therefore Apostoli could realistically and very likely be ranked at the very top of that tier while Gilroy could be ranked at the very bottom. There were something like 22 fighters in that tier meaning that Gilroy could have conceivably been rated 22 places below Apostoli who didnt even crack the top ten. Thats hardly an accomplishment to trumpet after scouring Ring magazines to try to find mention of Gilroy.

 

I'll pay money to anyone who can produce a Ring top ten with Gilroy's name in it.

 

I notice it has become fashionable lately to talk up Gilroy.

 

Fashionable? It's become a crusade for his grandson, he is on every available boxing forum boosting his grandaddy's prowess and lack of opportunities owing to conspiracies which deprived him of his rightful title shots.

Gilroy was placed in a group of 22 men, none of them in the top 15 world ranking as recognized by The Ring.

I gave 11 of those boxers resumes in a previous post ,they are journeymen level as their win loss ratio clearly shows .
I've already discussed Apostoli so here are the other 9 and their resumes.

Big Boy Hogue won 49 lost 17
Nate Bolden won 63 lost 35
Jose Basora won78 lost 20
Steve Mamakos won29 lost 20
Atillio Sabbatini [welter] won 62 lost 22
Tony Cianciola no record on Box rec
Joey Sutka won 41 lost23
Kid Tunero won 96 lost 32
Leon Zorrita won 59 lost 17

All good journeymen fighters, but not world class.
You might be wondering how many of those other 21 names Gilroy faced and defeated? The answer is NONE!

Gilroy had two fights in1941, the year those rankings came out he won both ,his opponents were:
Jock McCusker who was 10-11-0. McCusker's final tally is won 21 lost 39.
Charlie Knock who was 19-6-0 , Knock's final tally won 37 lost 21.

Gilroy met 4 men who had pretensions to world class .

Freddie Mills lost tko8
Bruce Wood**** lost tko2
Bruce Wood**** lost ko 6
Don ****ell lost dec 8rds
Marcel Cerdan lost ko4

I hope we can consign Mr Gilroy back to his rightful place in pugilistic history now .

 

Gilroy was never world class, nor was he ever ranked as such.

 

World class

Did he beat a world class opponent near their prime ????

mcvey is not the one driven by an agenda

What's next from the pro gilroy agenda driven camp will they stoop to the level of children by calling all those that won't except their point of view Haters


No doubt they will search the pram for more toys to throw out :|