Hopkins greater than Jones if he beats Kovalev

All of the above is great, and it deserves respect.

His longevity is incredible.

He's nearly 50 and he's still fighting and defending titles.

But IMHO, it's still not enough to surpass Roy.

Mind Reader has already listed Roy's achievements.


Everyone has different opinions, and I respect yours even though I don't agree.

IMHO, Bernard's best win was against Tito. That win stirs up a debate, but I think it was outstanding.

However, I don't think his MW run is as impressive as what you think it is.

It looks great on paper, and it deserves respect.

But apart from the longevity aspect of it, I don't see it as an incredible feat.

I think it needs putting into context.

Roy beat him with an injured hand, and then dropped the belt shortly after.

Now had Roy have had aspirations of staying at MW, and if he could have continued to have made weight, then he too would have cleaned out the division without any issues.

Bernard eventually left the division in 2006, and as Mind Reader has mentioned previously, he's admitted that he could have made the jump much sooner.

Now apart from Tito, his MW run wasn't that great, and I believe he purposely avoided SMW and LHW while Roy etc were there.

That's my honest opinion.

I know he wanted to set records at MW, but that was easier than moving up.

Now Bernard could have gone 60-0 at MW, but it still wouldn't be as impressive, as unifying LHW, then easily beating a top 5 HW, then reclaiming the LHW belts.

Roy fought at 154 early in his career.

Again, it all depends how you view things.

Is is more of an achievement to dominate a division for years, or is more of an achievement, to move through different weight classes and win belts?

It all depends on the circumstances.

But IMHO, when Roy was prime, he beat better fighters than Hopkins, often doing it with absolute ease, and occasionally in spectacular fashion.

So like I keep mentioning, Roy beat better fights, in a greater manner, and he achieved more than Bernard did.

Therefore, despite Bernard's incredible exploits at his age, I can't rank him over Roy.

 

Bang on!

How can Bernard match that, especially as though Roy accomplished most of that with ease.

 

Let's not pretend that Bernard's run at MW, with the belt that Roy had left him, was always against elite competition.

It deserves respect, but it wasn't some incredible feat.

So what if Roy won a trinket at HW?

He's 5'10 and started out at MW and JMW.


Bernard was THE LHW champ, but Roy wasn't?

 

Whilst I fully acknowledge Hopkins' career achievements and would consider him an ATG I'm not sure how you figure he's a current P4P guy (ie is he, right now one of the best fighters regardless of weight or age?) his resume over the last few years is hardly stellar.

A Draw and a win against Froch victim Pascal, a NC and Loss to Dawson, and three relatively comfortable wins against guys who'd already been beaten (in reality if not on the cards) by Campillo. All of which is incredibly impressive given his age, but none of them were P4P type guys and I didn't see anyone putting Campillos name forward as a P4P candidate for beating the same fighters.

TBH Bernards LHW career has been very solid but it's his earlier MW career and simple longevity that make him an ATG - if he was to be judged solely on his achievements at LHW (ignoring his age) he'd be simply considered a very solid titlist.

Bhops LHW Run:

8(0) - 2(0) - 1 (+1 NC) = 12 fights. And his wins at LHW? Winky and Pavlik pulled up from 160, shot RJJ, Cloud? Murat? Shumenov?:roll: - his best was Tarver who was still arguably close to prime and Pascal (though even he ain't that good).

Overall it's a very solid, but hardly magnificent LHW record.

ATG? Bhops is a lock.:deal P4P currently? IMO No, though beating Kovalev might edge him close to the top 10. Victories over the likes of Shumenov and Murat do not make you a top 10 P4Per.

 

:good

 

:good

 

He was stripped of the WBA belt, but he vacated the IBF belt

 

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Dariusz:+I'll+drop+IBF+title.-a061088644

 

SirGAY as a litmus test for greatness. GTFO YDKSAB.

 

There it is Rico... Now can you shut the hell up about Jones unifying DM's stripped belts?

As in, he was only stripped of one.

 

There is that. I'm a fan of both Kovalev and Hopkins, but there's a reasonable argument that if Hopkins beats Kovalev, Sergei could be seen as something of a flash in the pan - how his further career ah-hum pans out will reveal more about the significance of the result. Certainly a victory over Kovalev would be little more than the icing on the cake given BHops overall career.

But yeah. Hopkins is IMO already a more significant ATG than Jones, though at his peak RJJ was the superior fighter.

That said, this isn't just another defense, but a unification bout, and against a guy who won it genuinely (unlike Shumenov) - if you're looking at Hopkins LHW record it's very good, but hardly elite - adding a third title could make a real difference to how he's viewed by posterity.

Oh... and SirGAY? Ingenious! Your remarkable wit must be the envy of your friends!

 

That is what I am trying to get him to explain.. I don't see how Hopkins was a more legit LHW champ than Roy was...

 

Not to mention, the first achievement listed was gained by beating a higher ranked Bernard Hopkins while injured.

I think the H2H win really gives Roy that extra nudge in this debate. That was a meaningful fight in retrospect... as you mentioned above, I think had to do with Bernard staying away from Roy.

 

:deal

 

He's just a hater.

He'll never be objective when it comes to Roy.