Which career "0" was the most difficult accomplishment?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Halfordscream, Sep 21, 2014.


  1. Halfordscream

    Halfordscream Global Full Member

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    Why phrase it this way some might ask? Because I think to a large unfortunate extent to remain undefeated (which happens so rarely) means more than just the fighter himself but the "support" that gives such advantages as:

    - determining when difficult opponents are fought,
    - site selection (where the fight occurs - at "home" or on neutral grounds),
    - controlling the promotion,
    - dictating the terms,
    - and even affecting outcomes.

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    Most fighters do not finish a career undefeated. Fighters have off nights, some are matched against better quality opponents or fight in tougher more competitive eras, or move up to higher weights, and finally, many keep chasing paychecks up until an advanced age when father time provides a final reality check instead.

    It is clear that while there are lots of fights that differ in the eyes of the beholder, most of the time it is at least apparent who won and who lost. But, the importance placed upon remaining undefeated as long as possible or, similarly, in keeping one's belt or title is often immense.

    An unexpected setback means less money in the next fight (for the fighter, promoter, belt orgs, networks, advertisers, venues, etc.) and a delay of months or longer in certain proposed future matchups everyone was counting on to occur.

    So, there are many fights which have blatantly bad scorecards from a judge (or even two) that stand out to the viewer as being something far less than above board. Is it simply the "eye of the beholder"? Or, relatedly, there are referees that are certainly less than impartial that interject, interrupt, and quickly halt fights when it seems quite unnecessary. How can this happen? It seems clear that 95% of time when a fighter is stopped prematurely beyond reason or the cards are overly skewed he was not the fighter with the promotion.

    The promoters are putting on the event. Their capital is at risk and the success of the card or show and future cards or shows are foremost in the minds of all of those contracted directly and indirectly to work the event in various capacities (judges, refs, docs, bell ringers, announcers, etc.). The illusion of impartiality occurs as the judges and the referees are engaged by and responsible to an intermediary (belt org, state commission, etc.). How a promoter (informally it is presumed) requests certain refs and judges for events and is accommodated is less evident. It is regularly possible to have refs and judges assigned from a third country unrelated to the fighters who are not actually impartial at all (simply by virtue of a passport) but are aware of who was involved in punching their ticket, their pay, and accommodations to the event.

    What is repeatedly evident is that in a fight of importance all "unsupported" challengers can expect to be on a less than level playing field if things go awry for the fighter with the promotion or support.

    Everyone has their own examples to make that point. British fans note the actions of the ref in the Ottke/Reid fight. I might take the Miranda/Abraham fight. To my eyes, Randy Neumann was a corrupted official. Miranda was not expected to win this fight and there was no way he was going to garner a close decision in Germany. But no one could foresee the misfortune that befell Abraham to actually have his jaw broke on a punch. Suffering a terrible injury, Abraham was in dire straights. It was only the fourth round. Immediately, Neumann interjected himself into that contest. Abraham was in such discomfort he was essentially jumping backwards and turning away so that Miranda's punches landed low. Neumann sent quick warnings and deductions in volume at Miranda. Neumann frustrated Miranda and affected the fight. It was an amazing effort by Abraham and to get Abraham through eight rounds with a broken jaw and part of the "credit" was certainly due Neumann.

    Of course, the British examples of wrongful stoppages and home cooking is equally voluminous and they would not attempt to defend the many atrocious circumstances that have occurred over there these past few years. Fighting any country's primary boxing icon in that country is going to make a fair decision difficult to obtain. There are examples in all countries - more or less.

    To round this off, I don't mean to state that any such things have occurred with the undefeated fighters. This is generally speaking to touch on the corruption that permeates boxing historically. It is to try and exemplify or illustrate what a lack of support could mean and how with the right "support" there are many aspects to a career that can go FAR more smoothly and increase the possibility of success and especially the "protection" of a belt or title or record.

    We see the strength and power in dictating terms to opponents whether it be the Klitschkos or Floyd Mayweather, Jr., today. Under their negotiating position many past greats might have had far less losses and certainly if transplanted to this era of less activity and more calculated direction. On the other hand, perhaps all or most of the greats of the past with gaudy records were examples of fighters well supported in their own time.

    Of the undefeated, whose path was the most difficult or least supported relative to the others?

    I suppose an aside could be which fighter with a stellar record (though not undefeated) can be considered the most accomplished for achieving that record under the most difficult or disadvantaged position?
     
  2. rossco666

    rossco666 Guest

  3. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Calzaghe's 0 is the most impressive of the bunch followed by Marciano.
     
  4. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ibeabuchi's.
    Although he never beat Tua, but similar arguments hold for most if not all of the names mentioned so far.
    2nd place is Calzaghe and 3rd is Marchegiano.
    4th may be Ottke.
     
  5. pablod

    pablod Active Member Full Member

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    He openly and honestly avoided the 2 best fighters in his division until they were old and the odds slipped into his favour.
    nothing impressive about that.
    No one could say that jones and Hopkins were anyehere near their prime when thy fought calzaghe.
    His best opponent outside these was a good win over lacy, but lacy wasn't exactly a career defining opponent
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    What about Jimmy Barry or Pichit Sithbangprachan?

    Anyway, Packey McFarland is the answer, then Floyd Mayweather.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would say definitely Marciano.

    What makes his record really crazy, is that he did it while setting the standard for consistent ranking of opposition.
     
  8. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Of those men, Mayweather gets my vote, with Marciano 2nd. He's been fighting world class opponents since the late 90's - that's 17 years of undefeated championship defenses while fighting above his natural weight. To me, that makes up for Marciano's edge in quality of opposition.
     
  9. I Know Everythi

    I Know Everythi Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Mayweather. But I never have held any retired undefeated fighter in very high regard to begin with
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Not only is Mayweather the only serious challenge to Marciano in this category, he might well be the guy who finally matches his 49-0.
     
  11. grumpy old man

    grumpy old man Well-Known Member Full Member

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  12. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    sven lost plenty, he simply got decisions reversed. calzaghe had it largely subdomestic easy littered with fake stoppages till Kessler. terry marsh did more than these guys.


    moneymays is very good but not great


    marcianos is the best despite some weak opps and luck.


    there are hundreds of fighters with better resumes than these (Marciano apart), its not about zero.


    not sure who lopez is.
     
  13. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  14. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's Marciano...by far..
     
  15. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well I could tell you you're wrong and point out your mistakes but I would be wasting my time because you clearly have an agenda.