In his prime, Liston was unstoppable

Hell of a fighter in his prime, but I actually feel the Liston movement has swung too far in the other direction. When I first started following things I think he was underrated, but I think he's a little overrated these days.

No biggie though, still a legit HOF caliber Heavyweight any way you cut it. Funny how fighters' stocks can still swing decades after their body of work has actually changed, especially ones who we have extensive film on like Sonny.

 

Aside from Ali, I think I agree with you.

 

No man is unstoppable but he was very good.

 

I haven't seen anything to suggest this. Care to point me to a match you deem suited for becoming enamored with Liston?

Footspeed was never his strong suit, so I doubt he'd ever beat a peak Ali. I also question his ability to fight against taller fighters who use the outside like Vitali Klitschko -- slow of foot and slow of hand, sure, hits like a mule and fights with cunning but still..

 

Liston does get under rated by some, but isn’t it really his own fault?

He ultimately chose to throw his reputation and career away for a handful of magic beans.

 

I agree that Liston is somewhat underrated, and I've always considered him to be one of the most dangerous heavyweights H2H. The only one I would label as a distinct favourite over Sonny at his best is a prime Ali. There are a couple others that could be tossups like Foreman, Lennox, The Kiltschko's, Louis, and maaybe Dempsey. But the only clear favourite I see is Ali.

 

Liston was one of the top 3 ATGs.
He lost credibility by diving against Ali and he should have.

 

Based on almost any reasonable criteria, Top 3 is far fetched.

I usually have him on the cusp of the Top Ten based on accomplishment and abilities.

He used to be incredibly overrated on this forum. In recent times, his stature has moderated.

 

Are you really serious? If anything Liston is overrated on this forum.

 

how is liston overrated on this forum?

 

Let's see if I got this right, correct me if I'm wrong... 50-4 (39) overall and 2-2 (2) in HW World Title Fights. He was stopped 3 times.

His losses were to-

Marty Marshall- 180 Lbs. and he broke Liston's jaw. Liston went 2-1 (1) vs. Marshall.

Ali x2- Ali stopped him both times. Look, Liston may have underestimated Ali a bit in their first fight but a prime Ali would have beat a prime Liston. Ali dropped him in the 1st round of their rematch... yes Liston could have continued but Ali did put him down with a good punch despite what many say. Ali was way too fast and elusive for Liston.

Leotis Martin- Some good back and forth action until Martin knocked the past prime Liston out.

His best wins-

KO1 Patterson... twice... a good fighter but a blown up LHW with a far from great chin. Patterson was down 20 times as a pro, that's more than any other HW Champ.

KO3 Folley- Folley was a good fighter but not very big and not very durable

W12 Machen- pretty much on par with Folley but more durable

KO3 and KO2 Williams... one of the most overrated fighters to ever fight for the HW Title. Williams went 1-1 vs. Terrell and drew with Machen, that's about it unless you want to talk about his knockout losses.

Unbeatable in his prime? I doubt it.

 

You've never seen the threads about his 84" reach (so what? he was 6' tall, maybe 6'1" on a good day), his power (but how many durable chins did he really get thru?), his jab (his jab just keeps getting better even though he died more than 40 years ago), his size and strength (people get all kind of rattled when it is suggested that he was no bigger than or stronger than guys like Holyfield, Tyson, and some other). I'm waiting for his hand speed to improve... wait a few more years, it may develop.

Liston was a very good fighter, I'll even call him great, but I don't think he is underrated. He was a scary dude in his day, but I'm not sure if he would have the same results vs. HWs who were not only much bigger, but quicker and just as talented. Lewis, Bowe, V. Klitschko, W. Klitschko, Foreman, Holmes, Ali, Holyfield, Tyson, Louis, Marciano, and Frazier beat him in my opinion. Charles, Walcott, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, and some others have a good chance at beating Liston as well.

 

Without a doubt the most overrated heavy on these forums.

 

To open, two things:
1) To the Klit nuthugger let's look at a 1958 Klit vs. Sonny.
Let's look at a prime 2003-4 Sonny vs. Klit.
Different eras!!!
2) No one (still) knows exactly when Liston was born. The records say 1932 but some say as early as 28-29. Had he been brought along properly (to be fair, other fighters suffered from this) he may have been coming into prime around 54 and IMO would have put a smackdown on the Rock (an ATG!)
In short, the man remains an enigma. But watching him (however old he was or whoever he fought) you saw that thudding jab, numbing left hook, and a right that could summon the 'sandman' at a moment's notice.
IMHO there is no overrating this guy.