The "All Things Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

What did espinosza just say again? Why, does arum lie about pacs guarantee to nevada commission again?

 

Early in his career Pacquiao was much lighter than Mayweather, however that had more to do with the socioeconomic differences between the Philippines and the US, and thus Pacquiao and Mayweather (the hardships that Manny had to endure early on in his life and career are well documented), than due to true natural differences in size between the two.
The main reason Floyd fought at a higher weight class than Pacquiao for a long time is because Pacquiao used to cut a lot of weight when he fought at lower weight classes, while Floyd didn’t, or at least not as much. Being able to dehydrate yourself more doesn’t mean you are smaller, it just means that you are more willing or more capable to dehydrate to make a lower weight than you should be fighting at.
The earliest fight for which I have seen Pacquiao’s fight night weight reported is his first against Barrera in Nov of 2003. For that fight he was 136lbs on fight night . (9% weight increase overnight from official weigh-in)
Exactly two weeks before that fight, Floyd fought N’Dou. His fight night weight that day was 140lbs. (4% weight increase overnight)
So as of 2003, both Pacquiao and Floyd have been nearly the same weight on fight night, and it’s been pretty much the same pattern ever since. One more thing to keep in mind is that Pacquiao is 2 years younger than Mayweather, so from a purely developmental point of view (males typically reach full development in their late 20s), his weight progression should be slightly behind that of Mayweather on any given year until both plateau.
Here are some of the weights for each fighter over the years.
1998
No fight night weight available for Pacquiao.
Mayweather – Manfredy. Fight night weight: 138lbs (6% increase overnight)
2002
No fight night available for Pacquiao
Mayweather – Castillo I. Fight night weight: 138.5lbs (3% increase overnight)
2003
Pacquiao – Barrera I. Fight night weight: 136lbs (9% increase overnight)
Mayweather – N’Dou. Fight night weight: 140lbs (4% increase overnight)
2005
Pacquiao – Morales I. Fight night weight: 139lbs (7% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Bruseles. Fight night weight: 142lbs (2% increase overnight)
2006 (early)
Pacquiao – Morales II. Fight night weight: 140lbs (9% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Judah. Fight night weight: 146lbs (0% increase overnight)
2006 (late)
Pacquiao – Morales III. Fight night weight: 144lbs (12% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Baldomir. Fight night weight: 149lbs (2% increase overnight)
2008
Pacquiao – De la Hoya. Fight night weight: 148.5lbs (5% increase overnight)
Mayweather “retired”
2010
Pacquiao – Margarito. Fight night weight: 148 (2% increase overnight)
No fight night weight available for Mayweather
2011
Pacquiao – Marquez III. Fight night weight: 148lbs (3% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Ortiz. Fight night weight: 150lbs (2% increase overnight)
2013
Pacquiao – Rios. Fight night weight: 150lbs (3% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Alvarez. Fight night weight: 150lbs (0.05% decrease overnight)
2014
Pacquiao – Bradley II. Fight night weight: 151lbs (4% increase overnight)
Mayweather – Maidana. Fight night weight: 148lbs (1% increase overnight)
A few things to notice:
1) Earlier in his career Pacquiao could cut a lot of weight by dehydrating and then rehydrating.
2) Floyd’s weight progression reached its plateau by his fight with Baldomir, 3 months shy of his 30th birthday. Since then he has pretty much stayed at the same weight (which is what should happen with every person assuming they take care of themselves).
3) Pacquiao’s weight progression reached its plateau by his fight with Oscar, 10 days shy of his 30th birthday. Just like Floyd, since then his fight night weight has stayed pretty much the same.
4) Notice that also since the De la Hoya fight Pacquiao’s weight difference between his weigh-in and fight night weight became drastically reduced, which tells you that earlier he could fight at lower classes by taking advantage of his ability to cut weight, not because he was actually a lighter guy.
So if you ask me, based on the evidence, I say both Mayweather and Pacquiao are naturally the same size, and remain so to this day.

 

i think its fair to say floyd is the bigger man. hes taller and has a bigger reach than manny. mannys height is exaggerated. he isnt bigger than 5'5"

 

did you just create some technical, scientific way to determine that two human beings are the same size naturally? wow bro you should publicize that.

 

The numbers are not as clear as your title suggests. I agree with all four of your conclusions yet still say Pacquiao is naturally one weight class lower. You have three data points to compare the “modern” size of both fighters. Before that everything points to Manny being smaller (even all the way up to his physical peak shortly before 30). There are also other factors in play like strength and conditioning which would explain Pacquiao’s larger size post-DLH but not necessarily speak to a “natural” size. I’d also be interested to know their walking around weight. For Mayweather it’s right around 150. I believe (but am not certain) that it’s slightly less for Pacquiao.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but I don’t think the numbers “speak for themselves”. Your conclusion is a bit hasty.

 

"yet still say Pacquiao is naturally one weight class lower."

Based on what? I just gave you the weight progression of both to show you that for at least a decade both fighters have been within a few pounds of each other on fight night, that both reached their peak weights at almost exactly the same time in their life time, and that since both reached that peak both have remained at that weight level. What evidence do you have to say he is one weight class lower? I’m all eyes.

"You have three data points to compare the “modern” size of both fighters."

Which covers 4 years (a life time in boxing). How many years would you think are appropriate to say they are the same?

"There are also other factors in play like strength and conditioning which would explain Pacquiao’s larger size post-DLH but not necessarily speak to a “natural” size."

And Mayweather has never done S&C? His body just magically developed to the shape he’s been over the years? I agree that S&C can affect the fighter’s weight, but since we will never know the exact day each fighter starts with a specific program, or the exact training regime, or what their pre and post weight is when changing something in that training, all we can use to judge is how much they weigh on fight night. As for Pacquiao getting larger after DLH. He didn’t get larger after DLH, that is why I said he plateaued after that.

"Your conclusion is a bit hasty"

I hope you are joking, since I haven’t seen you or anyone else give a more thorough breakdown or explanation of why they think X or Y on this subject. If you think I’m being hasty, how would you call your own assessment or anyone else’s? However, just in case you are being serious, let’s look at things from a different angle.

This is each fighter’s fight night weight in chronological order:

Pacquiao:
Age-Weight
24-136
26-139
26-140
27-140
27-144
29-145
29-147
29-148.5
31- 148
32-148
34-150
35-151

Mayweather
Age-Weight
24- 137.5
25- 138.5
25- 138
26- 140
28- 142
29- 146
29- 149
34- 150
36- 150
37- 148

Notice any differences there David? It doesn’t matter what each one of them did or does as part of their training, nor what their walking around weight is, the fact remains that for more than a decade, on fight night, both have weighed nearly the same as each other, each and every year of their lives, and their weight progression has been as close to identical as you can get when talking about two different people.

So what do you think, am I still being hasty in my conclusions?

 

Celestino Caballero weighed the same as Daud Yordan. Does that make them the same size? I would say the obvious answers are both yes and no.

Weight and dimensions/length are two different things.

 

I don't agree with you often, but this is spot on.

 

Arreola weighed in one pound heavier than Vitali, so he's a bigger guy, right?

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3512/3952762343_fcbcf1b8c4.jpg

 

I haven't read the thread entirely but two things to consider, namely height and reach. Take an extreme example of Hearns and Duran. Hearn's is about 6'1" and Duran about 5'7" now whether or not they weight the same or not, is far less important than who has the longer reach. Hearn because of his body build has far longer arms which generate more power and because of his reach he can hit fighters from the outside and he doesn't have to get inside to win. Someone like Duran or Pac fighting Hearns would have no choice but to try and get past his jab otherwise they would loose on points.

Hence when fighters are approximately in the same weight class, reach becomes extremely important.

 

Shaq and Vince Wilfork both weigh 325lbs…are they the same size???

Jesus Christ.

Mayweather and Marquez both claimed to weigh 150lbs in their fight (we all know floyd really fights around 160lbs) were they the same size??

Was tommy hearts the "same size" as anyone he ever ought at MW or below??

IF you can't understand size and weight….you can't be helped on this subject.

 

People still say Floyd come in at 160?

 

Ive always thought they are both the same size however I think even now Mayweather has a reach advantage over his opponents

 

He's 3 inches taller and has a 5 inch longer reach. Floyd is structurally the bigger man.

 

Floyd Mayweather is 5' 8" with a reach of 71"
Mike Tyson is 5' 10" with a reach of 72"

Almost the same size?