In his prime, Liston was unstoppable

Terrible argument. He loses a split decision to a far more experienced veteran in his eight fight. He gets his jaw broken as if that can't happen to anyone. Then he goes undefeated till after the age of 35 when he loses to the greatest heavyweight that ever lived at the start of that fighters prime. Then loses again after the age of forty. **** poor.

 

Also, his losses to Clay/Ali had a smell to them that can't be denied.
He did not lose the second fight. He was not counted out. That fight should be reclassified as a NC.

 

The way he lost to Ali is what hurts. He quit in first fight and in the second fight he either Quit, took a dive, or suffered a first round one punch KO loss, that would be the only one in the career of Ali. All three outcomes are very negative.
If anything it hurts him in mythical match ups that would boil down to a battle of wills. Also if you remove Ali, his resume while good is not all time great material. He does look impressive on film though and was a physical beast with solid technical skills.

 

another name comes to my mind perhaps..., JIM ROBINSON!?

 

The immortal Jim Robinson. He was stopped in first round but I was referring to the fact that Ali stopped Liston with a single shot, his only 1 punch KO in career. Robinson was felled by a combination I believe. Although I could be wrong.

 

All in all it was a good post .
But this blown up thing isn't correct.
1. Fight: Liston 213 lbs-Patterson Height:6' 189 lbs
2. Fight: Liston 215 lbs-Patterson 194.5 lbs

Holyfield was another blown up fighter but he fought Tyson
with an incredible ripped muscular 215 an 218 pounds.
I think a similar Holyfield type body with more fat mass
-like Arreola's- is a 250 pounds fighter.
This weight thing is a tricky thing because lots of original and good heavyweghts' muscle mass is far away from the Tyson version Holyfield.
Plus Holyfield's chin is/was far better than at least 90 percent
natural heavyweights'.
This blown-up Tyson version Holyfield wasn't a real heavyweight.No.
He was an outstanding all-time heavyweight "monster" .
Two blown up fighters(Holyfield and Patterson) but what a
difference.
A good fighter can beat lots of type good fighter.
I think Liston never beat a good , athletic and at least 215 pounds 6'3" fighter.
He proved by these Patterson thing he could beat a good 6'
and lighter than 195 lbs fighter.(Weights by weight ins)

Othewrwise the Liston's problem is similar to wladimir klitschko's
problem. Wladimir never beat a good 6'3" and at least 215 pounds
muscular fighter.
wladimir and "Lipton" proved nothing in this question.
Maybe wladimir's height can fool some persons but he is in
similar shoes like "Lipton".

Unstoppable? wladimir and "Lipton" have losses.
The answer:No.:happy

 

Sonny was definitely a borderline top 5 all time heavy. Can't see him winning a prime for primer with Ali,though. Muhammad was all wrong for him.

 

His rise to the title was better than most and few were more deserving of a shot than he was. He truly crippled what was a very good heavyweight division and won his belt more than convincingly against an all time great. Do I agree that he was unstoppable in his prime? Against the men of his own time, yes. Does that mean that I think he'd pull off what he did in EVERY era? Probably not. Still a magnificent fighter nonetheless.

 

Agreed.

Crippled, yes. Very good, no.

All Time Great only if you have very lax standards for such. Not in my book.

Yes. On the cusp, if not just inside, the top 10 for heavyweights.

 

I think Floyd Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen and Zora Folley all of whom were more or less prime qualifies as a very good division. And that's only listing his primary wins and not secondary. If you'd prefer, we can change "very good" to just "good". But to call it anything less than "good" is a bit unfair.

-Olympic gold medalist
- Youngest heavyweight champion of all time ( depending on when you consider Tyson as gaining recognition as "champ" )

- First man to regain the heavyweight title

- Wins over Moore, Machen, Bonavena, Johannson, and Chuvalo, and was possibly robbed against Quarry and Ellis.

- A career that spanned roughly 20 years and through a fairly competitive era

I'll compromise and say that he was on the low end of the spectrum for all time greats, but I think he makes that cut, even if just barely.

Fair enough.

 

Liston is overrated if anything, I think plenty of Ali fans like to make him out t be unbeatable to accentuate Ali's legacy.

People would have you believe he was a giant beast of a man but the reality was he was 6ft and 216lbs, he also quit when he didn't fancy it or was bribed depending on who you believe either way not the heart of a champion.

Top 20 all time heavyweight at a push. Liston is pretty much just a footnote in the history of the Heavyweight Division.

 

That might be the case, but he was the most dangerous fighter Ali ever fought, on paper at least.

I am as confident as you can be with something like this, that the Liston of the first Patterson fight, would have taken Foreman and Frazier.

 

I'll go with decent or mediocre. Machen and Williams were deeply flawed fighters. Patterson never wore the crown with authority being matched-up with a veritable who's who of no-hopers and toothless contenders. Floyd's later career earns him more respect in my eyes.

Rademacher was a gold medalist, also. The youngest thing just means he was a prodigy that came along at the right time. A few years before or after and there is no way he is champ. To regain the title you have to lose it first, it's a bit of damning praise. Chuvalo, Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena were all post-Liston affairs and don't really shed light on this discussion. Again, I think he got better after the Liston fights. I like Floyd a lot. He was an interesting, prideful man who overcame some stuff to become an unlikely champ. Just not sure I can call him an All Time Great, especially not based on what he had done before meeting Liston.