Is Joe Calzaghe an ATG?

Yes, he is. He looks bad at times but he has such a unique game. Great workrate, great will to win (not just acting like it, never leaves anything on the table), good ring generalship, good movement, good handspeed, can take a punch and get off the floor to win.

People see his punches and go "that's bad". It's such a small part of the overall fighter and he made it work for him -- he couldn't throw that many punches if he threw properly all the time.

I've always believed that he found something in the second half of the Kessler fight -- he confused Kessler by shoeshining with some punches and loading up with others. If only he'd stepped up his competition earlier in his career, with his mindset he could have been an even better fighter.

 

In great company he'd pick up his fair share of losses but don't believe he'd lose them all. He's very "clutch" because of his stamina and workrate and I think there's a fair few upsets he could cause because his opponent didn't fight wisely.

You'll have to put in a great performance to beat him -- every time, no matter who you are. A bad training camp, blowing your load early in the fight, not being conscious of the rounds in the bank -- a "better" fighter could easily lose.

His workrate puts rounds in the bank. Just look at the Hopkins fight -- and few are that aware defensively. He'll score plenty of points, against anyone.

 

Depends on your cut off really but I think he edges it. Clearly bellow the best though, so it depends on your line.

 

id say no.
he avoided the best fighters of his era until they were long past their best. He just doesn't have an all time great resume. you don't get greatness by playing it safe. reminds me career -wise of sven ottke.

 

definitely eubank did too. it was the era of the wbo british title.

 

No. I dont feel hes an ATG.

Maybe as a British fighter, but not on the overall scene.

If Hamed, Hatton and Froch waited until Barrera, Mayweather/Pacqiauo and Ward were 40+ years old and then beat them, would they be counted as ATGs?

 

All true.

 

Hopkins begged Calzaghe for a rematch after their fight in which Calzaghe got a controversial SD.

Calzaghes reply 'i dont do rematches'.

Surely if Calzaghe was as great as he thinks and really wanted to cement that greatness, the first point of business would be to face Hopkins again?

 

I was there that night and indeed, Calzaghe did throw shoeshine punches and dig in at certain points so the opponent didn't brace themselves for harder punches.

I believe it's round 9 Vs Kessler; Calzaghe badly hurt him with a body shot at the end of a combo.

 

Well said that man.

Ultimately, Calzaghe's record speaks for itself, as described above. You can always say 'well, so and so was past his prime' and 'he did not fight so and so', but boxing is so corrupt and making those career-defining matches is so complex and difficult that few fighters have complete, undisputed dominance in their division. There are always going to be 'what ifs'.

To me many of the doubters of Calzaghe's ATG status argue on basis of aesthetics rather than achievement. I can see their point. Joe was not good to watch in stylistic terms - he often looked like he slapped, which gave his boxing an amateur feel, and he could be ungainly in the ring even when he dominated opponents, like Lacy. He simply did not have an appealing eye-catching style like that of a prime Jones jr or Leonard or even Duran. That's just aesthetics though. Calzaghe achieved a great deal, and even for AGT status.

 

I don't really care who anyone wants to name as someone he should have fought earlier, or any other BS. No one, and I mean no one from that division is gonna have an easy night fighting J.Cal.

 

Isnt there a Tyson thread you should be on?

 

No

He missed too many fighters.

 

that's no qualification for greatness though, no one ever had an easy night with sakio bika but so what? not sure id agree in any case , I think a prime jones would have a pretty easy night with calzaghe, like he did with pretty much everyone he fought at his best. completely different level