Burley's history of being boxings most avoided man

Take a look at the records of Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Bivins, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ike Williams, Jersey Joe Walcott, Beau Jack and Archie Moore on BoxRec. All of the mentioned black fighters fought while Charley Burley was active as a professional fighter. Yet Charles, Bivins, Robinson, Walcott, Jack and Moore, became fine drawing cards sometime during their careers, but not Burley.

Why did Burley fight so much in Minnesota or California, far from the major boxing centers in the East and the Midwest? He never fought in Cleveland, Detroit, the major boxing venues in New York City, Shibe Park in Philadelphia, Chicago Stadium, the ballparks in Chicago or the ballparks in Boston.

Burley may have made some bad choices or simply didn't find the right manager during his career. Or Burley didn't have a dynamic personality or a crowd-pleasing fighting style.

- Chuck Johnston

 

No, the fact Ive provided shows that Gavilan was already well known in New York and an established headliner. When he fought Robinson there was a lot of interest in that fight. It was you who tried to paint Gavilan as a nobody. Gavilan was a much bigger draw than Burley just by the simple fact that Garden asked him to headline three main events before his fight with Robinson. How many times did the Garden come calling to Burley? Goose egg! Its you who wants to paint Burley as something he wasnt.

I cant stand when people make **** up to support their argument. You keep calling Ezzard Charles a novice when he fought Burley. In fact he was an amateur star who had fought all over the country for four years prior to turning pro. Prior to fighting Burley Charles had fought #3 ranked Ken Overlin twice, #6 ranked LHW Teddy Yarosz (one of Pittsburgh's most popular contenders, keep that in mind given the fact that Charles was facing Burley in Pittsburgh), #3 ranked LHW Anton Christoforidis, #6 ranked MW Kid Tunero, and then Burley, who was rated #4 at WW behind Cochrane, Robinson, and Wilson. So quit with the horse**** about Charles being a novice. Let's also not forget that the $31,000 gate for Burley had a lot to do with the fact that Ken Overlin, who had just lost his portion of the title, was originally scheduled as Burley's opponent but was replaced on short notice with Charles. More to the point Burley was not the main event of this card, which was stacked, it was Zivic-Jenkins. The card also featured Joey Archibald. So essentially for that card to even make $31,000 it had champions scheduled to appear on it (one of which dropped out) and Burley. So lets not pretend it was Burley's star power that got that gate OK? Also, if you really want to adhere to the notion that Charles was a an unknown novice how does that help your argument that Burley was so good and so avoided when he gets his ass royally handed to him by unknown novice??

And no, I called Rooney a promoter. As a promoter its his job to drum up interest in the fighters he promotes. He promoted Charley Burley and so he had a vested interest in positioning Burley as a foil to Robinson. Robinson, being the draw that everyone else wanted to be, was an easy target for promoters to get some free publicity by claiming their fighter was being ducked. Its the oldest promotional tool in the book and if you cant figure that out you need to go back to watching golf.

Dempsey-Wills would have been the largest gate for the first 70+ years of boxing had it gone off and more to the point any promoter who put it on could have sat back and slept through the entire promotion and still would have broken all records. BUT, AGAIN, Burley was not Robinson's #1 and he didnt have anywhere near the support that Wills had. You keep ignoring this. Ive never understood the logic by which some Burley fans think Robinson should have gone out of his way to fight Burley. Its up to Burley to reach a point whereby he can challenge a CHAMPION (Robinson wasnt even a champion at that point) and a combination of losses, bad performances, the war, managerial problems, and bad luck account for his not getting to that point.

If Robinson isnt a champion its his job to either make the most money he can or move up into the rankings to face a champion. As a non champion who happened to be one of the biggest draws in the sport he has the privilege of choosing who he wants to fight. So yes, if Burley couldnt draw flies by covering himself in **** then Robinson, as a non champion, is more than justified in going after game that can. Its called PRIZEFIGHTING not CHARITYFIGHTING.

My point is that until big TV money came into the sport nearly a decade later Rooney and McGinley never saw the day they could put on a show like what Robinson was already doing routinely even when they had a stacked card. So I take it with a grain of salt when a promoter uses the newspapers as his negotiating outlet. Yes. If you are one of those pinheaded muppets who thinks every promoter is honest and everything he reads in the sports pages is indicative of what goes on behind the scenes we can leave it at that. Youve already shown above that you are woefully uneducated on the subject you love to talk about. In fact I cant ever recall an interaction with you where Ive ever felt you knew or understood the subject.

Again, Burley wasnt headlining that event. That card had several big names associated with it so you pretending that it was Burley who was drawing that gate is way off base. However, lets examine this. If that card has so many names attached to it just to be able to get to the $31,000 mark that means that pot had to be divided several ways with a large cut going to all of those names. That means less money for the main eventers (which Burley wasnt one). Again, why shouldnt Robinson demand a huge purse for such a card when its obvious based on everything on in Pittsburgh promotion at the time that he would be the one bringing everyone (and their wallets) in? You want to ignore that fact and pretend that in a perfect world this welterweight (who had only recently moved up from LW) should fight a MW in his hometown for the same money he was getting everywhere else as a charity case. Its goofy and has no basis in reality. Yeah I get it. It has a nice ring to it. "Charley Burley was ducked by everyone including the great SRR." It sounds a lot better than "Charley Burley just didnt have enough interest behind him to force fights against fighters who were more famous and had no real reason to fight him either because he wasnt ranked high enough or wasnt in their weight class."

Again, you dont know what the payday is because you only know what Rooney said. Rooney is working behind Burley so he has an interest in making it look like Robinson ducked Burley. There is literally nothing to suggest during this period that Rooney and McGinley could either come up with kind of money needed to pay Robinson a GAURANTEE and still be able to cover the other costs of the promotion and make money for themselves. Absolutely nothing. So no, I dont believe everything I read in the papers. On the other hand Robinson knew very well that LaMotta was a draw and that MSG could come through. Anyone who thinks that LaMotta posed an easy fight for Robinson has been asleep at the wheel so I reject that notion out of hand as totally ill informed and ignorant. And frankly I dont care that Robinson fought LaMotta, electively, over Burley because those guys made history together. Burley's legacy is of a poor guy who didnt get the breaks. Its hard to hear but tough ****. It happens every day. Had he gotten the breaks he may have gotten his ass kicked and you and would have never heard from him.

You said Burley won an eliminator, he didnt. Period. Zivic got the shot and made the most of it.

Thats their opinion and thats fine but its just that: AN OPINION. "Best resume of the era" ??? My ass. Once again, bluster, hyperbole, and pure horse****.

Burley drew more than 95 percent of the fighters on Robinson's ledger? I would say you are just making **** up to bolster your argument but I know better. I know you dont know what the **** you are talking about.

So Burley was the ONLY fighter Robinson missed fighting and Burley wasnt even in the same weight class as Robinson? Id say thats pretty damn good for a guy who fought for 25 years...

You know for a fact that Robinson offered to fight Burley if Burley took a dive? Proof please. Bold statement to make without proof.

 

Uhhh, no, no he didnt. But you go on believing that as well. Must be nice in your world.

Like I said, prove it. Id love to see some evidence of this. Hell, Id like to even see where this quote originates.

Like I said, you keep on believing Burley was an aggressive monster. I'll defer to the men who actually saw him fight. Not some starry eyed nincompoop. I might as well believe Harry Greb was a Mike Tyson class puncher because he knocked out glass jawed heavyweight Al Benedict who was about 6' 2" and weighed 210 pounds when they fought. The difference is Im not stupid. I happen to realize that Benedict was a tomatoe can who made a career out of getting knocked out by better fighters. Doesnt matter that Greb was the only MW to do it.

A fighter who isnt aggressive can get more stoppages than an aggressive fighter who doesnt have a punch. It doesnt change the fact that Burley wasnt aggressive or exciting and Gavilan was. But Im glad to hear that Im speaking to Burley's representative and that you KNOW that he would have fought Robinson at WW in 1948 or 49 when he hadnt made the WW limit since 1939 and hadnt even been close to it in for or five years. Im glad YOU KNOW that....


Lets recap some of your embarassing misteps:

Burley was aggressive.

Art Rooney had nothing to do with Burley and was a totally unbiased independant opinion.



Burley was a dynamite puncher.



Burley was a bigger draw than Kid Gavilan.



Burley would have fought Robinson at WW in 48 and 49 despite having not made the weight in a decade.



Burley has the best resume of the era.



Burley is the only fighter Robinson missed out on fighting.



Promoters dont lie, or stretch the truth for the sake of their fighters.



Burley drew a gate of $31,000 despite not being a headliner on that gate.



Robinson offered Burley a fight if he took a dive.



Roy Jones legitimately offered every rival of his era a fight.



Ezzard Charles, despite having been an amateur star for several years and having faced numerous top ten contenders was a total novice when he fought Burley.





Am I missing anything genius?

 

Was Charley Burley similar to Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, a very talented fighter who had a quite a number of indifferent performances and often displayed a tendency to sink out the joint during his career?

Of the top white middleweights active during the middle 1940s, Jake LaMotta seemed to be the most likely one to fight Burley since he fought a number of black middleweights during that time, including Holman Williams, Bert Lytell and Lloyd Marshall. Moreover, LaMotta fought in Pittsburgh a number of times during World War II, including two bouts with Fritzie Zivic in Forbes Field.

- Chuck Johnston

 

While in California during the 1940s, Charley Burley fought at the following venues along with the capacity of each of them:


Hollywood Legion Stadium, Hollywood- about 6,300
Auditorium, Oakland- about 9,000
Civic Auditorium, San Francisco- 7,000
(Later known as the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium)
Coliseum, San Diego- 3,521
Lane Field, San Diego - 9,000 to 12,000

Note- Lane Field was a baseball park and the home of the San Diego Padres of the Pacific Coast League, which was the highest level of minor league baseball along with the International League and the American Association. Ted Williams, a native of San Diego and possibly the best hitter ever in baseball history, played for the Padres at the beginning of his professional baseball career.

- Chuck Johnston

 

According to Harry Otty's biography of Charley Burley, about 800 people saw Burley knock out Jerry Hayes in the fourth round of a scheduled ten-round bout which took place on a charity card in Eau Claire, Wisconsin on December 23, 1941.

In a bout which took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota on January 9, 1942, Burley won over Shorty Hogue by a knockout in the tenth round. According to a ringside report by Joe Hendrickson of the Minneapolis Star found in Otty's biography of Burley, the bout had an attendance of 2,000 and a gate of $1,400.

In a bout which took place in Minneapolis on April 30, 1942, Burley knocked out Sammy Wilson in the second round. In the main event on the same card, Sugar Ray Robinson knocked out Dick Banner in the second round. According to Otty's biography of Burley, Robinson and Burley received $1,000. and $150. respectively for their bouts. According to information of the bout found in Robinson's record on BoxRec, it was reported in the July 1942 issue of Ring Magazine that over 5,000 people saw Robinson in action.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Burley is now considered great by liberal wanna bies who never saw him just going on a lot hooey!!!!YA WHY DIDNT HE FIGHT IN THE garden??

 

According to Harry Otty's biography of Charley Burley, the first bout between Ezzard Charles and Burley was on on a card which had an attendance of 12,134 and a gate of $31,686.50. at Forbes Field in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on May 25, 1942. Charles was a virtual last-minute substitute for Ken Overlin and won a decision in the ten-round bout, which was considered a great one. The other featured bout on the card was between Fritzie Zivic and Lew Jenkins, which Zivic won by a technical knockout in the tenth round.

The rematch between Charles and Burley took place at Hickey Park in Millvale, Pennsylvania on June 29, 1942. Charles won by decision again in the ten-round bout, which was not considered as good as the first one between the two boxers. According to Otty's biography of Burley, Ray M. Todd stated in the September 1942 edition of the Ring Magazine that the bout had an attendance of 4,200 and a record gate of 6,843. for Hickey Park, beating the previous record of $6,000. set by a bout between Lou Brouillard and Anson Green in 1934.

- Chuck Johnston

 

An excellent comparison between Burley and Eddie imo. The only film we have of Burley isn't easy to watch for all ten even for a boxing purist, Burley's boxing is subtle, balanced, knowledgeable and much like Louis, by the book. But it was also tedious.

 

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