When did 70's ali look closest to his prime?

Surely the art is to hit and NOT be hit. Generally speaking Clay / Ali ( pre 67 ) was a master of that.

 

I agree with this, Ali was stronger and he adapted IMO the 70's Ali beat the 60's version but may have to chase him a bit

 

Yes , but Tyson beat better fighters in the 80's and Ali beat better fighters in the 70's. That is the correlation here.

Capito?

 

I'd say Ruddock was the best opponent Tyson beat at the time he beat him.

The same for Dempsey and Sharkey, and Louis and Walcott. So I guess your logic kind of redraws the map a bit.

 

Ali himself disagrees with you. But, hey, what does he know.

 

If I had to say one fight, I'd say Frazier II. And as a period it would be from the Norton rematch to Zaire. He trained very, very hard for those fights, and after Zaire he dropped quite a bit.

 

I think it's funny how Ali is the only fighter in history that apparently benefitted from being out of the ring for close to four years.

Can't have anything to do with making the claim that Frazier did in fact beat a somehow prime Ali can it?

 

True. Ali would never reach that level of conditioning again. If he had have done.he may have beaten Frazier slightly more easily in Manilla

 

That's one of the things I honestly can't get my head around. He was almost 34 and about 5 lbs overweight, but still (just) could hold that pace in that heat.

 

Ali can say he was undefeated at the time but the truth is he elevated his opposition with Quarry,Bonavena and then Frazier....Do you really think the early Ali would have done better against the FOTC Frazier? Liston was his best win in fight 1 but Liston was slow and older Frazier was fresh and full of energy and LEFT HOOK and PRESSURE to the head and body and I am not sure that any version of Ali could beat that Frazier.

I know Ali fans want to believe it but was the younger Ali as strong, physically and mentally ? Frazier,Foreman,Norton,etc.?

I think the younger Ali got hit an awful lot to the body by Chuvalo. He looked great against big Cat but Big Cat was shot and Foley was also past his best and his best was also limited (Doug Jones stopped him) Could you imagine Vlad against those same opponents? Frazier from FOTC would have a chance against anyone and a step up and style wise a problem

 

Yes it was damn well incredible.

 

Never he was never the same. Still he was better than everyone else

 

Ali has said on several occasion that he was better before the exile. Dundee has said it. Pacheko has said it. Chuvalo and Patterson who faced him before and after have said it. Friggin' Cus D'amato has said it. What do you know that they don't?

And of course prime Ali would do better against Frazier. He wouldn't gas after 4-5 rds.

Please answer me why Ali was the only fighter that didn't get worse by a long layoff?

Why did Dempsey, Louis and Tyson detoriate (who all were punchers, as well), but not Ali? Can you name any other fighter that didn't become worse after an inactivity of several years? What makes Ali the special case here, besides the fact that defeating him is your guy's main claim to fame?

Also, how was Ali physically stronger at 215 lbs than at 214,5 lbs in 1966 against Chuvalo? Or the 212 lbs, and more cut, version against Williams, Folley and Terrell? How does long inactivity and a couple of extra lbs of fat make you physically stronger?

And the thing is, Liston may well be the best opponent Ali ever defeated. Hindsight is throwing things around as always, but going into that fight Liston had looked more impressive than anyone Ali ever beat besides possibly Foreman. The only thing that says otherwise is how relatively easily Ali handled him.

 

to me, this is the nearest he looked to the dancing sharpshooter and swaying back from punches ali of 66/67...but yet, thats not me saying its the best 70s ali, if that makes any sense.

vs jimmy ellis 1971.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GETVn105R2s