If Marciano had carried on, how much longer would he have ruled?

I agree that a 39 year old Marciano would be severely disadvantaged and an accident waiting to happen against a Prime Liston but I think bummy makes a great point.

At elite level there is not enough to really count on Liston in a real competative championship fight with a great fighter. Just my opinion, but Rocky had too much of a great right hand at his best for anything to be an entirely foregone conclusion.

Sonny did beat a great fighter very easily so maybe he was too good to be truly tested at his best? I think we need more than Sonnys build up opponents to find examples of competative wins. I think the rematch clause era robbed us of ever knowing how Sonny gets on in a great fight, or a winning championship fight where he gets hit back. Great fighters win great fights as well as having great wins.

I wish the Foley fight was filmed and I also wish Sonny could have been free to defend against other chalengers besides Floyd, before Ali.

 

Liston came out on top in two shootouts with Cleveland Williams I very much doubt Rocky hit harder than him.

 

Williams was the bigger man and I thought it was a great win for Sonny when I was younger but after a closer look I can see Williams is known by his losses to Liston and Ali by KO and he was KO'd by Satterfield earlier when he was 31-1 , he had a win over Terrel that was avenged, Roger Richer was not rated at the time and Williams main wins were decisions so yes Rocky was proven a far better puncher over quality guys. I think there only common opponent was Keene Simmons who Marciano stopped in 8rds and who went the distance with Big Cat

Williams was a body beautiful big guy but there is no proof to his punching power in the ring by his in the ring history.

I have my personal doubts about Liston and the cracks in his armor and not so sure how he would have acted against an alpha dog based off of the Ali history but like I said before if Marciano tried to stick around until 1958-1962 2-6 years he more than likely would have picked up a loss or an injury based on his intense training and style and Liston did not start fighting again until January 1958 when he had a 14-1 record and so I think it would be stretching it to think Marciano would have been around in 1959 or 1962 when Liston did get a title shot

 

Williams was a 20years old late sub for Satterfield.
Terrell and Liston both said he was the hardest puncher they met. Marciano was in danger of being stopped on cuts by Simmons. Simmons had just 17 fights under his belt, he had another 10 when he faced Wiilliams, he usually lost but not many stopped him.

 

Keene Simmons said Rocky hit harder than Williams in an interview.

 

Source?
Rocky stopped Simmons , but he never floored him.

 

Prime for prime Liston muders Marciano

An old Marciano loses way before Liston but if by some miracle he reaches Liston undefeated
He gets beaten up worse than anyone in boxing history

Because rock had heart and Liston would just break him piece by piece

 

I saw this quoted on another thread on this very site I think it may have been by you - Cleveland Williams vs Marciano

I have also seen this posted on several sites including boxrec. Do you still have the source

 

I could only find this quote on a quick search written by Thomas Hauser

Marciano was small for a heavyweight, but he beat men down. He moved forward with a will of iron, arms pounding, throwing punches from every angle, anxious to make contact with any part of his opponent’s body to see which of them could give and take more pain. He had to get close to be effective and he was willing to take the punches to do it. He applied non-stop pressure, banging and banging from the opening bell until the end of a fight.

A fighter who comes forward all the time no matter what his opponent throws at him is hard to beat. And every punch that Marciano threw was a knockout punch. “Whenever he hit you, wherever he hit you, he hurt you,” Keene Simmons (an eighth-round knockout victim) said.

 

Thomas Hauser does good investigative work. I've had pleasure meeting him on several occasions always a good read. As for the quote, being that I have seen it several times I do give it some merit would be nice if the source was available in a previous thread I believe choklab says he has the magazine where it can be verified.

 

I know Hauser well and he'd bet every nickel he has that Liston would have flattened Marciano. It is a physical and stylistic nightmare for Rocky, great to pretend otherwise on this fantasy thread but I doubt anyone would put a dollar up if it would be accountable.

 

I wouldn't bet on either guy. Knowing what we know of them. Liston had physical advantages. Rocky possessed the intangibles. He also had the will and the work rate, now Foreman to me is another story too big in my opinion for Rocky to handle as are the K bros and Lewis. I think Liston/Marciano is fascinating match up. I wouldn't denigrate anyone's opinion too harshly on whoever they chose in this fight.
I mean we can't just throw out Liston's two fights with Ali. I mean he was finally pushed back by a great fighter and he quit in first fight, and in rematch he either got knocked cold by an average puncher on a single shot, or he quit again or he took dive. All three theories not a good moment.
Would Liston's size and jab pose problem yes so much of a problem that I would write off a man such as Marciano no not at all.

 

Yes, I still have the source and I shall locate the magazine article. From what I remember it was a collection of interviews by surviving marciano opponents from the early 1990s. Simmons, Walace, Mathews, Lowrey and Lastarza. Simmons said he became a sparring partner to Rocky after their fight. Lowrey was blind in one eye and working as a trainer. Wallace, Simmons and Lowrey were photographed and still looked in prety good shape.

 

The article was not pro-Marciano in fact he was the opposite but I guess he had to quote certain truths. I wonder how much you would have bet on Liston in actual $$$ against the likes of Louis, Walcott,Dempsey,Lewis,Marciano,Tyson, etc. would you bet your house?

I remember being a young man and laughed at this nut Cassius Clay (who almost got flattened for good by Cooper and beaten by Doug Jones) he was talking a lot of smack and I would have bet everything I owned that he would have killed Clay and then Ali did it to me again with Foreman but this time I lost more than a baseball card collection

 

Because IMO, and as an old janitor told me in the early 70's, Floyd wanted to fight the "people's fight"; dispatch Sonny early with his lighting shots.
Not the way to fight Sonny but stubborn, head strong Floyd just 'waded in'. Many will laugh at this but IMO I think the two Sonny bouts were a bit of an anamoly in Floyd's career. Styles make fights and Sonny was simply too big and talented for Floyd tho he COULD have made it more interesting. Question? Wouldn't have Floyd's BIG shots hurt Sonny more than any of Ali's shots, not to mention the shadow that crept over their two scraps?