Just rewatched Hagler - Leonard for the 3rd time...

Scored it the same. I would be okay with a draw as well. I would love to give it to Hagler, but I can't. I'm convinced he blew the fight the first 5 rounds trying to outbox Leonard.

 

I agree with your assessment. I even think it could be a wider scorecard in favor of Leonard.

 

I dont know why this fight is so controversial IMO Leonard clearly won the fight.

 

I've never been able to score the fight for Hagler outright, to be honest. Have tallied a draw once, but on the other two or three times I've seen it I've had Leonard winning by a point or two.

It was a mega fight and so naturally people went to extremes with it, and still do. But truth be told, if someone today such as Huck was to drop his Cruiserweight title to a guy like Mchunu in a similar kind of fight and by a split decision (but with much less intense anticipation and coverage of the fight), nobody would really bat an eye lid. At the end of the day Leonard-Hagler was nothing but a close fight where you can make a reasonable case for either guy shading it. The fact that some still refer to it as a "robbery" is frankly embarrassing.

The hoary old theory that a champion shouldn't lose his title on a really close verdict, or that the challenger should have to win more clearly than the champion to go home with the belt, is a complete load of arse gravy unfortunately. I'm still waiting for the Hagler die-hards who bellyache about this fight to quote where it says any of that in the official scoring rules of boxing. If you think a fighter's won a round then he's won it, regardless of whether he holds a belt or not - doesn't matter if it's a close or clear round. You score it how you feel it went. Likewise, the idea that the champion should always get more benefit of the doubt is just an old dictum left over from the 'No Decision' era.

Oddly enough, Leonard does himself no favours, and in a weird kind of way seems intent on giving people more and more ammunition to degrade his win over Marvin. He seems desperate to make people think he's a smart man first and foremost, rather than making them think he was a great fighter. He's bleated on so much about how he saw Hagler slipping against Mugabi, how Hagler had mentioned that his motiviation was waning etc that in his quest to look like a mastermind (who intelligently saw an angle and exploited it) he's ended up making certain people talk as if he did nothing more than dance around against a decrepit old man for twelve rounds. He does the same to himself for his win over Duran in New Orleans as well ("I knew Duran would have problems with weight, I knew he wouldn't like being made to look silly" etc).

In short, I have no problem with anyone who thinks that Hagler edged the fight or deserved to keep his titles on a draw or whatnot. But I do have an issue with people using the word 'robbery' in reference to this fight, or who say that Hagler being the champion automatically meant he should have had some extra favour from the judges. There wasn't much more than a *** paper between them on the night and there were a few close rounds which were open to interpretation. If you preferred Leonard's smarts, ring generalship and point accumulation type of shots then you'll score most of those close rounds to him, if you prefer Hagler's less frequent but more hurtful shots along with his carrying of the fight, you'll go with him more often than not.

Given the backdrop of the fight, Hagler SHOULD have retained his titles from the outset. The fact that he didn't, however, is more down to poor tactics on his part than it is down to bad luck or a stitch-up to favour Leonard. Sorry, rant over now!

 

Leonard lobbied for the fight for quite some time and drew it out far beyond when it should have taken place. Didn't Ray leave Marvin alone at a press conference many months prior to when they should have fought? I've seen the fight; Leonard looks to be the winner but with all his stalling he got a much less prime or semi-prime Hagler to scrap with then should have been.

 

Sugar Ray was always a clever boxer... he knew from the off that if you were stopping your opponent from doing anything .and that you were doing nothing... you could still create the 'Subtle Impression' of being in charge... by being a bit more stylised in your nothingness... it may edge you the round on occassions, With Marvin, Ray did have him missing all over the place, when clearly in hitting range, so two agenda's so to speak, Marvin to take Ray's head off... Ray to Skillfully Avoid That. Who acheived their intent.. Ray Leonard.. I felt Ray's Defensive Skill and Prowess Did deserve to be acknowledged, Not just Marvin's efforts in throwing the punches.. but Ray's making them wasted efforts..

Of course their was kidology.. Marvin's trapping..or Ray Letting himself be Trapped on the ropes... in the 9th round ..Taking a salvo of shots... only to fight his way off and spin away with a neat flurry ...and dance away whilst beckoning Marvin on... I dare say Mavins Shots were the more effective... But Ray's looked more Spectacular... The Lord Giveth and Ray Leonard Taketh away... After that Marvin's Honest efforts were probably alway's going to play second fiddle to some Sleight of Hand, Flight of foot.. and the Smirk ..

I do think Master Magician Ray edged it by a couple of rounds.. and perhaps those first and second rounds are probably the ones..

 

Im with the guys who were rooting for Hagler but couldnt, in fairness, give it to him. He gave away the early rounds and then wasnt effective enough when he stopped trying to box orthodox to steal enough rounds to win.

 

I had it 115-114 Hagler.
Draw would have been the fairest result.

 

I've stated on here a few times that I think Hagler was robbed, but I re-watched the fight recently, and I scored it 7-5 for Leonard.

 

I love Hagler, he seemed to be absolutely unbeatable when I was growing up.
I have watched this fight a few times, and each time I score it, I score it wanting Marvin to win. However, I honestly believe Ray Leonard won, 7-5 is what I keep arriving at, and that is me being generous (at least in my opinion).
I think if he had come at Ray like he did Tommy, he could have crushed him, but he threw away the first 4-5 rounds, (why???) and then he still looked like he was marching through quicksand for the rest of it. Weird, he aged overnight I guess. Did Mugabi take that much from him?

 

Good post. I also have Ray winning every time, though not by much.

 

To be honest, I've always felt Ray has been undersold by him not being able to actually hurt Hagler. (who could?)

Leonard hit Hagler with plenty of stiff shots...the fact that they produced no effect is not important. I agree that Marv overall landed the harder punches (he was after all a natural middleweight) but Leonard shoeshined less than people tend to remember.
Yeah, he did play to the judges to a degree, but still. He did not win the fight by fooling the judges.
Not saying that's your perception of the fight, but plenty still have this notion that Hagler was cheated out of his title and that Leonard fooled the judges.

 

I remember being really surprised when watching this fight at the time because Hagler just didn't seem to be at the races. The violent intensity and the ruthless will to win were not there. He seemed to be merely going through the motions. There is no way he won the fight because he simply didn't do enough. He just followed Leonard around the ring, threw single shots, and covered up whenever Leonard let a combination go. Against Thomas Hearns he returned fire with brutal intent but in this fight he appeared to be reluctant to engage.

Now there is no doubt that Hagler's powers were on the wane by the time the fight took place, and this may have had something to do with it but I really think Leonard got inside his head and made him doubt himself. Why did he keep switching to orthodox?

The only robbery would have been if Hagler had kept his title. Okay a lot of Leonard's work was flashy and not damaging, but Hagler's work was pedestrian and lacklustre.

 

I watched it live at the time on closed circuit and really thought Leonard had won comfortably. It was areal pro Leonard crowd and I think you can get influenced by that in the moment. I was surprised after when it was controversial. Anyway I watched it again recently and still thought Leonard won but closer than I originally thought. I've got to say that I think it's a bit of a myth when people talk about Ray just running and throwing pitter pat flurries. When I watched it I saw a bit of that, showmanship but there was plenty of times when Leonard stood, planted his and feet and landed good shots. I think it would of been more controversial if Hagler had got the decision.