Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 (32) in 2008. Get over it. Fans & haters; quit trolling!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jun 24, 2013.


  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Bailey,

    We're going around in circles.

    So please just answer the last three parts of my previous post, where I've quoted what you've said

    :good


    Now what you've typed at the end of this post from above, just proves my main point from my previous post.


    Let's look at the questions you've asked:


    1. 'Eubank had how many title defences at SMW?'

    Your question is completely irrelevant.

    The reason being, Eubank wasn't still defending his title at SMW when Joe fought him.

    He hadn't fought at the weight for a while.


    2. 'Quality of the opposition for both at the weigh?'

    Again, it's irrelevant.

    Why?

    Because AT THE TIME of his fight with Joe, Eubank hadn't fought any quality opposition at the weight.


    Do you understand?


    You only deal from statistics from the past.


    You never allow for what was happening, at the ACTUAL TIME the fights took place.


    Don't look at what Eubank HAD done previously, look at what he was doing, around the time they fought.

    That's how you rate a win.
     
  2. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Floyd as a great champ was willing to fight Hatton. Jones was possibly more interested in going to HW.
    You compare Floyd and Jones, but I dont recall Floyd defending against fighters like R Frazier
     
  3. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    R Fraizer was a. Darius M sparring partner but lets not act like Floyd hasn't had his share of garbage fights !! ..And Calzaghe has twice the amount of bums on his resume so lets not even go there But back to the point why could Hatton come to the states and challenge the best fighter p4p yet Joe couldn't when Roy was the best fighter p4p ? I mean he was chasing Jones right ?
     
  4. jonze86

    jonze86 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Calzaghe fanboys hanging on that Eubank win.between 95-98 Eubank was 4-5 and didn't beat anybody half good.and as Loudon already pointed didn't even have the time for prepare the fight.

    I'll take anyday in the week Trininad on my resume,who was still undefeated.(one thing Calzaghe fanboys appreciate) Trinidad was coming of destruction of Joppy in 160pounds.and also was in his PRIME.

    Eubank was nowhere near his prime.as the record shows,and also perfomances in the ring.

    William Joppy was also respectable opponent for Trininad to see where he stands at MW.actually i would favor PRIME Joppy over faded Eubanks at the time of Calzaghe fight.Joppy only hast lost once,that he avenged immediately.
     
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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  6. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    So many people rate Wards win over Kessler as something special yet dont rate Calzaghes victory over Eubank. Why?

    It was Wards 21st fight, Ward was 25
    It was Calzaghes 23rd fight, Calzaghe was 25

    Ward won at home
    Calzaghe won away

    When Ward beat Kessler, Kessler was 42-1-0
    When Calzaghe beat Eubank, Eubank was 45-2-2

    Kessler was 31
    Eubank was 31

    Kessler was 8-1 in world title fights
    Eubank was 17-2-2 in world title fights

    It was just under 3 years since Kessler beat a world rated opponent
    It was just under 3 years since Eubank beat a world rated opponent

    Kessler had only fought 3 completed rounds in 1 fight in a year before fighting Ward
    Eubank had only fought 7 completed rounds in 2 fights in a year before fighting Calzaghe

    Kesslers only loss was clear
    Eubanks 2 losses - first was very close (debateable) the second was a SD, to the same fighter.

    Kessler was favourite to win.
    100 years of Boxing News claims Calzaghe was underdog, I have read Calzaghe was underdog but some posters claim he was betting favourite, though.
    This content is protected

    Notes Eubank was a strong favourite, but dont know where the site got its info.

    Both Ward and Calzaghe had dominant performances with Calzaghe scoring 2 KDs.

    After the loss Kessler beat undefeated WBC champ Froch
    After the loss Eubank fought WBO CW champ Thompson and lost a close decision scoring a KD. Eubank fought a return with the bigger Thompson and lost on injury when ahead. Thompson was a CW and the only fighter to have beaten D Haye.

    I have read how people on ESB say Eubank was shot so -
    How far past prime was Eubank to you then?
    Eubank had lost a close decision to Collins, that many thought he won, had a couple of tune ups and rematched Collins to a SD, had a couple of tune ups and lost clearly to underdog Calzaghe. After that loss Eubank went up to CW and challenged world champ Thompson losing a very close decision and then rematched Thompson losing on injury when ahead. Thats Thompson who years later past his best KOd D Haye.
    Consider Eubank only had 2 losses to one fighter when he fought Calzaghe, the second by SD to a world champ and was 31 then went on to challenge a big CW flooring him etc, how past his prime do YOU think he was?
    Remember Kessler is Wards big win and was the same age as Eubank here and had around the same amount of fights, so is Kessler shot as well, because Kessler has a serious eye problems and was an unwell double vision suffering fighter who has been inactive for a while now due to his injury


    Remember when you make silly comments about losses was G Johnson considered past his prime when years ago after losing to Hopkins he went 7-9-2 including the Hopkins loss
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good post.


    It's hard work debating with Bailey.


    Because when he looks at the Eubank fight, he sees the Eubank that beat Benn and Watson etc in his peak, and NOT the Eubank that had recently fought Camilio Alarcan in Dubai.
     
  8. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    With regards to Kessler and Eubanks

    It's simple Kessler was actually the favorite to win the super 6 meanwhile. Eubanks best years were behind him ..No one thought that the version of Chris Eubank in which Joe fought was at the elite level anymore ..
     
  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You see how you have an agenda and have tried to turn it onto Calzaghe :lol:?
    You compared Calzaghe/Hatton and then compared Floyd/Jones.
    When I gave you some details you have tried to turn it about Calzaghes comp :patsch
    Why does it bug you that Calzaghe mentioned something Jones apparently said?
    Lets not forget that Calzaghe had Hopkins back out and Jones have a change of opinion and take a different route.

    Who was there willing to face Calzaghe in the states?
    Calzaghe beat American SMWs Brewer, Mitchell, Sheika, Lacy. Agreed to go to America for Hopkins, and Jones was a HW when Calzaghe hadnt even fought Mitchell, so who was he to go to America for when he had Reid, Eubank, Woodhall, Veit also in Europe who also all at some point held a SMW title
     
  10. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wrong again.
    Eubank was top 5 and considered favourite.
    Kessler may have been a favourite with some, but i also read Abraham to have been made favourite by some and Froch also, so that sounds like just you trying to add weight to a failed answer to the above points
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Bailey,

    I've answered everything.


    Yes, I've taken into account that Tito was naturally smaller, he'd only had one MW fight, as well as his knock downs etc.

    I've taken it all into account, with everything else that I've listed.


    With regards to your two questions of relevancy, again, it's not important what had happened previously, it's what had happened at the time the fights took place that counts the most.


    A quick example from the top of my head.

    Danny Green vs Roy - 2009.

    You don't analyse what Roy had done in the past, against Toney, Hill, and Griffin etc in the 90's, you rate the win for Green, based on what Roy was doing in 2009.


    You have to rate Joe's win, based on the 1997 version of Eubank that he fought.
     
  12. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Agenda I was pointing out similarities ..

    Jones was the man Joe was a nobody on the world stage ..If he truly wanted to fight the best he would have did the same thing Hatton tried and actually challenge the best not talk about it ..


    Hatton made his name in Over seas same with Joe ...All the big names were in the states everyone and their mother knew this so I ask you again why didn't Joe take the same route Ricky did if he really wanted to test himself when it mattered ?
     
  13. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Please. Eubank was a name more than anything but I could see why he was the favorite he had the recognition and this was Joe's first big fight but that didn't equate to the best version of Chris and you know this.And no Kessler was the favorite how was AA in the super middleweight tourney when this was first attempt at super middle :think


    And no I'm trying to add weight it just seems your avoiding my question.
     
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Eubank was a good name, the then most accomplished SMW ever.
    I dont know why some bookies would make AA favourite, I didnt, but people see different things
     
  15. persianprince

    persianprince Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What i find very fascinating is that when you look at Ward's resume, his two biggest and best W by miles is Froch & Kessler. Joe Calzaghe beat a prime Mikkel KesslerÂ….