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Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 (32) in 2008. Get over it. Fans & haters; quit trolling!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jun 24, 2013.

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Staminakills Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Loudon said: ↑

Serge,

Excellent posts mate.

They were a pleasure to read.

Those two Carl Thompson fights were awesome.

What a warrior Eubank was.

Back on topic, I know you think I'm biased against Joe because I don't like him. But again, my only argument here, is that IMHO, Eubank was past his best, and his preparation could have been better.

Therefore, I can't class it as a great win. But it was certainly a great fight, and it was certainly a great win for Joe personally. I've recently been reading some excerpts from Enzo Calzaghe's autobiography online. Have you got that? He speaks of how nervous he was before the Eubank fight, and spoke of Eubank's intimidation tactics, but says how Joe took it in his stride. He also says that he'd have preferred the Collins fight for Joe, and he saw Eubank as the bigger threat. I enjoyed reading the bits that were available.

I've also managed to find a few bits and pieces of Eubank talking about his fight with Joe.

Below is an excerpt from his autobiography that I still haven't ordered. I've got Benn's book and I absolutely loved it, but for some reason I've never got around to ordering it.

Now for some reason, I can't post links at the moment.

But if you're interested, you can type into google - Book review: Chris Eubank autobiography - Welsh boxers.

He said that getting the opportunity to fight Joe was like winning the lottery, but he entered the ring with less preparation than would be ideal for such a contest.

He also said that he'd been using sparring partners to replicate the style of Mark Prince before he got the call to fight Joe, and that he was concerned about his knee playing up on the night, as he had to have an injection just prior to the fight.

The other information that I found, was an interview that was published on this site, but on the main page and not on this forum.

It was from 2011, and to see it, you need to type the following information - Exclusive interview with 'Simply The Best' Chris Eubank! - Boxing.

Now it has the exact quote that you've posted, where he talks of Collins, Logan and the weight not being an issue. But in the next paragraph he elaborates a little more.

He says the problems that he had, was that he had no southpaw sparring, and he couldn't do any roadwork due to a knee problem. Then he goes on to say that because of the emphasis his style played on multi directional foot movement, and the fact that Joe was much better than he initially thought, he had his work cut out to say the least.

Finally, I've found an interview from 2007, where a fan recorded a question and answer session that Eubank did, at Pea****'s Gym, near Canning Town.

It's got lots of interesting things in it, that I'd not heard before.

Again, you'll have to use a search engine to find it, because I can't post the link.

Type - interesting Eubank interview Muscletalk Bodybuilding Forum.

It seems genuine enough to me, but there's a few things that contradict what he said in the past. So you'll have to see what you think.

Regarding Joe, he said he had no real aura about him, and he underestimated him.

With regarding the weight, he said he thought losing it would be easy, but he got it wrong. In the week he was sparring for Calzaghe, he had no strength and no snap. He also said that he couldn't use multi directional movement because his knee had gone, and he thinks that he'd have got him out of there, if he'd have had longer to prepare.

Finally, he said that he carried the belt, whereas the belt carried Joe.

So I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on what he's said.

Did he mean it, or was it just pride talking, ten years after the event?

Have a read and get back to me.

Again, I respect how you defend Joe, and how you always back things up with links and videos.

Now IMHO, Joe would have beaten Eubank at his peak, fighting to his full capabilities. I genuinely believe that. As much as I don't like him, he was a great fighter.

But again, my only argument on this thread, is that I don't think it was a truly great win, for anyone other than Joe and his family and friends.

But I respect the fact that it was still a big challenge for Joe, and Eubank's tank certainly wasn't empty.

Great debate! :good
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Great post, you put a lot of time into this one man, and thanks for the google searches.
i'm not one to defend super joe as much as i should considering for me, he was the best 168 to 175 of his era easily and possibly the best 68 ever.

he was truly a machine and i dont know how anyone could have beat him. he was truly one you would have to ktfo to win and i dont think anyone in those weights would had been capable of keeping him down.

still a great win, but more so in name.. but hey, most fans only rate wins on name value so it should be a very good to great win all around

Staminakills, Nov 4, 2014

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Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Mind Reader said: ↑

But didn't Joe himself use Roy's points win over a retired Tito at a 170lbs catcweight as reason to believe that Roy was back?:rofl

Surely Calzaghe fans must rate Hopkins' stoppage win over active undefeated Tito at MW .:deal
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:good

Loudon, Nov 4, 2014

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Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Staminakills said: ↑

Great post, you put a lot of time into this one man, and thanks for the google searches.
i'm not one to defend super joe as much as i should considering for me, he was the best 168 to 175 of his era easily and possibly the best 68 ever.

he was truly a machine and i dont know how anyone could have beat him. he was truly one you would have to ktfo to win and i dont think anyone in those weights would had been capable of keeping him down.

still a great win, but more so in name.. but hey, most fans only rate wins on name value so it should be a very good to great win all around
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Thanks man!

It's a better post now I've edited it.

I don't know why I can't post the links though? It's so annoying.

It's no secret that I don't like Joe, but he was a great fighter, and he must have been very awkward to have fought.

There's not many guys that I'd fancy to have beaten him.

But the first names I think of, are Roy and Toney.

I'm certain that Roy at his peak would have been too much.

But I do keep changing my mind on Toney. I can envisage James countering him, and beating him if he'd have fought to his full capabilities. But then I think that he probably wouldn't have shown Joe an ounce of respect, thinking that the fight would have been easy. So I can also envisage him showing up having not being fully fit or motivated. Which Joe could definitely have taken advantage of, out working him to a decision.

What do you think?

:good

Loudon, Nov 4, 2014

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Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Serge said: ↑

I guess I should've given a serious answer. Sorry. lol

It was a really good win and an even better performance over a still very formidable Eubank.
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:good

Loudon, Nov 4, 2014

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Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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Loudon said: ↑

:good
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Cheers. I'll reply to your post soon.

Amendment to my original post: The second Collins fight was Eubank's 10th fight in 19 months and 11th in 23 if you include the Benn rematch.

It's tiring doing all that crap. I think it should all be on point other than that, but if there are still any small mistakes they weren't intended to deceive. lol :good

Serge, Nov 4, 2014

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Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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Hopkins will have his personal referee to protect him, he will fall down on the canvas claiming a low blow, etc., just like he did against Dawson. Kovalev hits much harder than Dawson.....................

Farmboxer, Nov 4, 2014

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HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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farmboxer wrties another cruddy post, full of bad punctuation, excess commas, full stops, racist bile, etc ., just like he does with every calzaghe Hopkins post.....................

HerolGee, Nov 5, 2014

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Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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HerolGee said: ↑

farmboxer wrties another cruddy post, full of bad punctuation, excess commas, full stops, racist bile, etc ., just like he does with every calzaghe Hopkins post.....................
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He's always on every Ward, Hopkins and Mayweather thread saying pretty much the exact same thing.

Azzer85, Nov 5, 2014

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Pound4PoundGG Well-Known Member Full Member

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All it cements is the fact that hopkins was robbed and calzaghe knew it on the night and he still knows it

Pound4PoundGG, Nov 5, 2014

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Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Serge said: ↑

Cheers. I'll reply to your post soon.

Amendment to my original post: The second Collins fight was Eubank's 10th fight in 19 months and 11th in 23 if you include the Benn rematch.

It's tiring doing all that crap. I think it should all be on point other than that, but if there are still any small mistakes they weren't intended to deceive. lol :good
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It was a hell of a schedule that he had.

I believe James Toney also had a similar one from 92-94.

There's only a few years between them in age.

It's unbelievable to think that Eubank retired in 98, yet James is still fighting.

Hopefully he'll hang them up soon.

Off topic, what do you think will happen between Eubank Jnr and Billy Joe Saunders?

Also, what will happen between Bernard and Kovalev?

I can't seem to make up my mind.

:good

Loudon, Nov 5, 2014

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bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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Loudon said: ↑

Hopkins has always been disciplined. He's meticulous when it comes to training and his diet. The point is, there wasn't a big disparity in size when they fought. Hopkins is a few inches taller, but nothing significant, and Trinidad weighed in at a higher weight. So you can't really say that Hopkins had a size advantage. It's not like it played a part in the outcome of the fight.

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You said it yourself there with how meticulous he is.
If they are so close in size and he wasnt naturally bigger, do you think he would have got down to WW and been effective?
He was a naturally bigger fighter who had to remain ultra disciplined to be a MW and has had more fights above MW than MW in his career

One fight is enough for me. It's better to have one very good win, then many against lesser fighters. Joppy was a good fighter, and Trinidad was 28, and he handled him easy and looked good at the weight. So he didn't need a large number of fights at MW, to show that he was a good MW.

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Why do you keep ignoring the glove wrap query?
Hatton had one good win at WW but I doubt would be called a good WW.
Cotto has had one good MW win but I doubt he will be called a good MW even though he is a great fighter.
Trinidad beat Joppy who was very good in your opinion then because?

The answer to your question above, is yes. Yes, along with EVERYTHING else that I've already noted.

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Then we will leave that there.
I will rate the win of a young up and comer beating the most established man in the division and you can rate a fighter who started his career 5 divisions higher beating a fighter with only one fight at the weight.
Agree to disagree

So you're questioning my opinion on Tito, because he only had one MW fight, yet here you are telling me how good it was that Joe beat a known commodity at SMW

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I didnt mean it as it sounds when saying known commodity, but absolutely. When that known commodity has the best resume at the weight ever and Calzaghe had never been close to that level but dominated. Yes

Yet that known commodity (Eubank) hadn't even fought at the weight for two years, and hadn't had a win at the weight for three years.

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Eubank had a couple of wins close to the weight similar to fighters like Toney who had fights outside of the weight and Dirrell recently fought a bit over the weight. Kessler also when he beat Green.
Cottos win over Mosely was considered a decent win when Mosely had only one recent win at WW before with the last 8 fights before that being at LMW, with 2 losses and a NC in that and the 2 WW fights before that being losses with Mosely being 36.

You can type words like 'whopping' all you want.

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Whopping 6 divisions bigger between their debut weight divisions. It got even more extreme, though you can tell me they are a similar natural size due to height , forgetting that people can have different frames and builds

When they fought each other, they were practically the same size.

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Just look above and we can both chuckle at what you are trying to convince about

Tito was much younger, undefeated and it was for the undisputed MW championship.

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Knew I would get you to slip into this and it only took a bit longer than I thought.
So you rate a win due to a title and think that makes it a better win.

Hopkins was much older, and beat him pretty easily.

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Think you are getting a bit carried away with the age here. I think you said Hopkins was 36 and Tito 28, yet you still brush over the natural size and weight.
Calzaghe was 35 and beat 28 year old unified at the same weight Kessler who was also undefeated and had beaten more than one champ at the weight and was established at the weight, but I doubt you would call that great?

You can dress it up however you like.

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Not dress it up, but tell all the details both ways

Hopkins beat a prime, younger fighter easily, whilst being much older.

Joe beat an older fighter in Eubank, who was at the end of a hard career, who hadn't had a win at the weight for three years, who had recently been fighting at CW, and who only had 11 days preparation. Apart from a lack of experience, the cards were pretty much stacked in Joe's favour.

He hadn't fought in the division for two years.

Did Joe have bad hands going into the Eubank fight?

I'm not bothered about the above examples, because we're not rating those wins.

Eubank had injections in his knees just prior to the fight.

But because he's fighting Joe, I guess it's all irrelevant?

You're always telling us how Kessler was faded, unwell, and suffering from double vision etc when he fought Ward, yet here you are completely dismissing Eubank's condition, his preparation, and where he was in his career at the time.

You've mentioned in your examples above, that Froch was faded against Ward.

So are you going to agree that Eubank was faded against Joe?

Yes or no?

Let's.

Correct, but again, the guy hadn't had a win at the weight for three years.

Agreed.

It was harder for Eubank, because he had to move down to a weight he hadn't fought at for two years. He had the experience over Joe, but Joe had initially been training to fight the guy who'd beaten Eubank twice, and he had youth on his side. Eubank's wife put him on a liquidised fruit and veg diet to make the weight.

Agreed.

But again, there's many other factors to consider.

On the night of the fight, Tito and Hopkins were almost the same size, and Tito weighed in at the higher weight.

Joe is around 6ft, and he wrote in his autobiography that his natural walking around weight is/was between 13st,10 - 14st.

Tito retired four fights later, with 2 wins and two draws.

Eubank retired two fight later, with two losses.

I didn't say that. I said that looking at Eubank's past glories at the weight, weren't relevant at the time that Joe fought him.

Because, for the hundredth time, Joe wasn't fighting the guy who'd beat Watson and Benn. He was fighting a guy who'd lost twice to Collins and who'd recently had two stay busy fights at CW, against Alarcon and Barrera.

There was no need to write all of the above.

1. Every fighter ages differently, depending on their circumstances.

2. I never said Eubank was some major old age fighter. I said that Joe beat an older fighter, who was faded.

3. Again, if you're going to tell me that Froch was faded against Ward, and that Kessler was also faded against Ward, then you can't tell me that Eubank wasn't faded against Joe.

Eubank was a great fighter, but he was faded against Joe.

Now if you think Joe beating him was great, that's up to you.

But I just don't see what's so great, about a younger guy beating an older faded guy, who was no longer relevant at the weight that they fought at.

I've just found this old article from 2002.

BBC SPORT | Boxing | Calzaghe prefers Hopkins bout
news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2245116.stm
10 Sep 2002 - Joe Calzaghe says he would rather face middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins than light-heavyweight Roy Jones Jr.

I can't post the link, but in the article, Joe stated - 'Although I've been a champion for five years and I've beaten some good fighters, I've never beaten a great fighter.'

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I must admit that I didnt read all of the rest of the post as I notice that Serge had posted some fantastic posts that once again blew your opinion post out of the water again
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bailey, Nov 5, 2014

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Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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So now Chris Eubank had something left in the Calzaghe fight

the guy was ready to fight at cruiser took the fight on what 2 weeks notice then Proceeded to lose his next 2 fights and then retired but yet he had something left for Joe GTFO !!!

I swear as time goes in people love o rewrite history atsch

Imperial1, Nov 5, 2014

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C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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Pound4PoundGG said: ↑

All it cements is the fact that hopkins was robbed and calzaghe knew it on the night and he still knows it
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Exactly Calzaghe punked out of a rematch in wales because he knew Nard was coming to kick his cowardly ass.
Slappy retired to a life of Coke, alcohol, skanky hos like the cowardly fraud he was

C.J., Nov 5, 2014

#703
lefthandlead Boxing Junkie Full Member

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C.J. said: ↑

Exactly Calzaghe punked out of a rematch in wales because he knew Nard was coming to kick his cowardly ass.
Slappy retired to a life of Coke, alcohol, skanky hos like the cowardly fraud he was
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Nard was full of sh!t, he didn't want a rematch. It was just talk. He is still scared to death of Calzaghe. If Calzaghe makes an unlikely comeback, Hopkins will instantly retire.

lefthandlead, Nov 5, 2014

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Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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lefthandlead said: ↑

Nard was full of sh!t, he didn't want a rematch. It was just talk. He is still scared to death of Calzaghe. If Calzaghe makes an unlikely comeback, Hopkins will instantly retire.
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Judging by the actions of the two fighters since, i wouldnt say Nard was full of ****.

Calzaghe is the one who fought an old jones and then quickly retired to 'cement his legacy'.

Azzer85, Nov 6, 2014

#705

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