Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post He would probably rather face Liston, Ali, Marciano, and both Klitschkos than get in the ring with Dempsey once. This is the sort of hyperbole and blind heroworshipping that makes this a humor forum. We are speaking of a guy too scared to fight an oaf of the sort he normally feasted on because the guy had more than rudimentary skills and who also avoided a pipsqueak, featherfisted middle preferring that fighter's victims to actually facing a he, who on paper, presented no great danger. I am sure Tyson would be shaking in his boots. Don't confuse respect with fear.
Nope, you'r wrong. I don't necessarily think Dempsey had mmore tools needed to beat Mike than any of those guys - but the mental game is a big part of this, especially with someone like Mike, upon whom Dempseys ferocity made a large impression on film and woul do no less in the flesh. Whether you or I may find it rational or not, Tyson was certifiably afraid of Dempsey, more than you can ever point to him seeming afraid of any modern or bygone era fighter.
Of course, how are we to know how Dempsey would have felt about Tyson? He was by his own admission afraid of Langford as a young man, afraid of Willard on title-day. He may not have fancied Tyson at all.
I think Tyson and Dempsey were both afraid going in most of their fights. That's the kind of fighters there were, they fed of the nervous energy and came out with high energy at the opening bell. I think most fighters have fear, it's just a matter of controlling it.
You suggest that you could beat Jack Dempsey, while accusing other people of being delusional. You say that Jack Dempsey didn't throw uppercuts, then turn round and say "OK he did, but he should have thrown more". You say that he didn't beat any world class fighters, despite the fact that he beat the undisputed heavyweight champion, and a whole slew of top contenders. You are not making a lot of sense here.
:good The question is, how much control would each he able to maintain essentially looking into a mirror (in certain key aspects they had in common, like ferocity and explosiveness)? Granted, we don't have the luxury of knowing the depths of Dempsey's mettle when gazing into that abyss. We do have documented evidence, however, of a prime and supremely confident Michael Gerard Tyson observing 68 year old film.. (and hardly for the first time) with an expression of unabashed veneration and bug-eyed gratitude to not be in Jess Willard's size 50 or whatever shoes. Regardless of how much credence you give the "bully the bully" platitude of Tyson breaking down when you stand up to him, there is no denying that he was impressionable to (as much as he was a master himself at) the mental intimidation game. It was a double edged sword with him, to what degree being the only matter up for debate. Dempsey coming at him like a lean mean gale force hurricane would have terrified him, that goes without saying. Of course, Iinstinct may well have kicked in and Tyson could have decapitated hhim within a minute flat with a counter uppercut. Doesn't change that it would be the most scared Tyson had ever been...and that would give Jack a better chance than his actual h2h tools ordinarily would.
He threw uppercuts and left hooks almost exclusively against Sharkey, just for an example I watched recently.
Yeah I could never figure why the likes of Bonecrusher Smith and Frank Bruno (2nd fight) seemed terrified of Tyson in their fights against him. They were big muscled 6'4" power punchers who were far bigger and probably stronger than Tyson yet seem unable to control their fear of being hit by this little guy (to them) in front of them. Buster Douglas on the other hand, didn't seenm to have any fear of Tyson or at least was able to totally control it and was of the mindset that as the far bigger guy he should fight like a bigger guy against a far smaller guy.
Sure, but both guys were supreme professionals at their peaks. I feel they would have that animal instinctive fear but NO REAL DOUBTS in their own abilities to defeat one another ... .... at least for the first few rounds. I do tend to believe Tyson was possibly mentally fragile and prone to frustration in longer fights, he had a hint or more of spoiled brat in him. That may or may not manifest itself.
Tyson my easy early ko He's heavier, faster, hits harder, is technically light years ahead of Dempsey. Fitter, better chin etc etc.
Yeah, they lacked confidence. Smith was a real tough guy physically and he knew he could punch but I think he never really considered himself a brilliant fighter or a destined champion. He was a latecomer to the game and an educated guy. He got in to boxing in the army and just sort of went with it. I don't think he ever thought himself a champion. It's mental. I saw him coasting in other fights too, kind of lacking fire like he wasn't supposed to win. He admits he was over-awed by the Tyson hype. Bruno was another guy who lacked confidence. I remember he used to say things about these American fighters having tougher upbringings, and that was just his perception, which was negative really, he was showing mental inferiority by being in awe of the guys from the New York or Philadelphia ghettoes. Also, I think he had mental issues going back to being scared of his father - at least that's what his said in a TV interview in recent years. Both those guys are good examples of letting normal fears get the better of you. They projected a lot of their extra baggage in to the opponent they were facing, built it up to ridiculous proportion. Tyson was probably scared too but used it to fight better.
I don't know if Tyson was a supreme professional at his peak...he won the Berbick fight suffering with an STD.
Dempsey never met a skilled heavy hitting 15st+ fighter during his prime. Theres 60 odd years difference between there peaks and it shows in the films of the two. Thinks have improved boxing wise immeasurably between 1919 and 1986 and to argue otherwise makes no sense.