Who Here Doesn't Have SRR P4P#1, & Why?

There have been too many legends throughout history too give Robinson this distinction automatically. Most people do this and dont consider other all-time greats before him, his contemporaries, or those who fought after him. Most look at him as the golden standard as being the best pound for pound, and for good reason.

In my honest opinion, I believe he is top three but the greatest fighter of all-time is Homicide Hank Armstrong.

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A

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who was great enough to become

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. He fought middleweight champion Ceferino Garcia to a draw in a fight many thought that he had won. So that is a possible four weight classes he could have claimed the championship in. Not only this he did so without having the prototype p4p style, he was an all action swarmer, with impressive handspeed, very sharp puncher, deceptive reflexes and an underrated defense.

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Included wins over Baby Arizmendi, Peter Serran, Al Bunny Davis, Mike Belloise, Frankie Klick, Benny Bass, Albert Chalky WRIGHT, Barney Ross, Lou AMbers, Midget Wolgast, Lew Jenkins, Ceferino Garcia, Tippy Larkin, Sammy Angott, and Willie Joyce and lost past his prime to Robinson, Zivic, and Beau Jack.

 

Charley Burley, Cocoa Kid, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, Jack Chase are all men that were close to robinsons size in the early-mid 1940s that robinson could have taken on that didnt that were top fighters. Robinson was taking on 160lb Jake Lamotta, why not take on archie moore or lloyd marshall at 160lb?

The only one Sugar Ray Robinson took on in his prime was Black Murders Row California Jackie Wilson and robinson won a close majority decision over him.

 

Pep also beat Manuel Ortiz a Hall of Famer, Albert Chalky Wright another fall of fame featherweight 3x.......... and He wiped out a very strong featherweight era convinsingly beating every # 1 contender for a whole decade.......and he beat some very good lightweight contenders too.


He defintley has the quantity, but he has the quality too.


When Pep was a shadow of his former self, he nearly beat featherweight champion hogan kid bassey giving kid a boxing lesson for 9 rounds ahead on all cards until getting knocked out.....it was a great last stand.

 

Jake Lamotta-Holman Williams decision was not controversial, I dont know who wrote that. Lamotta won. Jake Lamotta I have a ring magazine article, claimed he always felt he should be given more credit for taking on the Black Murders Row when no other white middleweight would dare get in the ring with those guys.

 

I have stated the same thing for years on this forum but people ignore it. As Roy Jones, and PBF after him are criticised for this Robinson has to be as well. IMO the best fighter he defeated was Kid Gavilan. An All-time great but who started at Bantamweight. The time he was at welterweight, and champion struggling at the weight

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were all at or around welterweight and middleweight.

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Thats good to know. I hope Rosenfeld comes back.

 

Judging by how his fights with ATG peak jake lamotta went in the mid 1940s, I think Robinson would have had some huge struggles with the black murders row. Lloyd Marshall for instance(my # 6 middleweight of all time) shutout jake lamotta, knocked out ezzard charles, and whupped on charley burley pretty badly weighing around the 160lb area.

 

he would have defintley lost

 

Langford and Armstrong don't have P4P ATG skills, Langford doesnt look that impressive on film, what about the Langford who Johnson beat who weighed 154 against Sugar Ray? Sugar Ray beats him decisively

Armstrong is 1 dimensional and Robinson easily beat him when they met, slightly past Armstrongs prime, YES slightly, Armstrong was still putting in career best performances within a few years off this

Armstrong was getting beaten in his prime by Ambers, no one thinks Ambers should be top30 P4P of all time because he wasnt good enough

Not to mention Armstrongs 20defenses is fraudulant, he lost to a lightweight Ambers during the first few defenses and shouldnt have been champ, plus he wouldnt fight Burley who was clearly the best in the division.

People talk about Armstrong as if he was a natural Featherweight, he wasnt he was a natural lightweight who fought at 126 2 times in the 2years before he beat Sarron, and a total of 17times in his younger, he was a lightweight draining to make weight, if Armstrong is a natural featherweight then Duran is a natural Bantamweight

 

i have him NUMBER 1

 

Arsmtong in his prime was being penalized for low blows, not being physically beaten by Ambers. Anyway, Armstrong wasn't one dimensional. Alot of things he did got unnoticed because of his aggressive style. He was possibly the best infighter in history employing great head movement, dipping, slipping, and rolling with punches, and countering with big shots on the inside. Also he had great hand speed, a tungsten chin, and great strength.

The same can be said about Robinson avoiding Burley....also the Black Murderers Row but everyone ignores that.

He was a natural featherweight/junior-lightweight by his prime. His first fight he was 120lbs. and until winning the lightweight title most his fights he was below 130lbs.

 

The thing that annoys me about Armstrong is he gets overrated based on the 3 weight champ success, yes its an achievement but lots of fighters could have done the same given the oppportunity

Armstrong started at 120, but Duran actually started at 120 himself, he also fought future featherweight champ Marcel who would beat Arguello when he was at 126, could Duran beat the featherweight champ? Ofcourse he could, he just never got the shot but size wise hes started in the same weight class as Armstrong and many would pick Duran to beat Armstrong.

Yes I think Robinson avoiding the murderers row strongly detracts from his legacy

Maybe 1dimensional is the wrong word for Armstrong, Unversatile maybe a better word, and a P4P king should be versatile

 

Today, I think there are seven leading candidates for the top spot.
They are :

Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard, Gans, Langford, Greb, Fitzsimmons