Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

There was nothing in the rounds. He did no damage to Haye whatsoever.

Tap tap and leave it to the judges. Embarrassing given his size, power and strengtht.

 

Gaye was running for most of the night.... The guy you picked to knock Wlad out, and claimed he was ducking. Embarrassing. :good

 

Hilarious coming from a guy who falls for the mystique of older boxers, and doesn't look at them objectively. atsch

 

Apart from a bit of handspeed which is still inferior where is the Haye comparison to Ali?
Haye is flat footed,he's no mover. There's no real jab of any description he counter punches. His chin is supect,when he had to put it all on the line after talking the talk,he couldn't walk the walk,he just wanted to survive,so he also has a suspect heart.
Ali put it all on the line, time after time. To put Haye and Ali in the same sentence just shows how little some on here know.

 

I don't get it either. Ali was clearly faster and Ali was far more mobile. Haye moves well but compared to Ali he was flat footed. Prime Ali never stopped moving he was very hard to pin down. Throw in his work rate, stamina, chin and boxing IQ and he's very different from Haye.

Also I don't get why people think Ali was just a great athlete. He lost a lot of his physical attributes by the 70's yet he defined his legacy while past prime. He showed far more than speed and natural talent when tricking Foreman into punching himself out and showed he could adapt when he jabbed and grabbed in the 2nd fight with Frazier. He actually showed good ring IQ and adaptability not just natural talent.

 

Do me a favour. All the rounds of the fights are on youtube.

Show me Haye running away from Wlad. You can post the link here.

Of Haye running around the ring away from Wlad.

Will you do that for me?

 

Im a big fan of Spinks. He's one of my favourite boxers. I've watched him closely and let me tell you Haye would be no match for him.

Read this. These guys know what they are talking about.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=522708

 

Not saying Haye would beat him, but your claim on "mystique" was ironic coming from you.

 

The vast majority of the fight.... Did the same against Valuev as well.

 

Just one round. If he ran all night , you should be able to pick any round.

Post it here. Lets have a look at Haye running around the ring?

 

Ali almost always found a way to win. Would never bet against him

 

Haye has got explosiveness, and he is fast.

I also take your point regarding the NFL and NBA.

He also has good upper body movement.

But when I talk about speed, I'm covering a number of things.


Such as:

The speed of the jab

Combination punching speed

Reaction speed/reflexes

Timing

Footwork


Ali was much faster overall, and had superior footwork.


All of which, tells me that Ali's movement would have caused Wlad major issues.

 

Haye's footwork is nothing to talk about at all. The guy is very athletic and this allows him to lung forward very quickly to cover distance. But agreed, Ali had excellent footwork and was very quick with his feet. He could get into positions very quickly and with great balance, like a dancer. Haye can often get off balance and look sloppy. But due to his athleticism, he can get out of trouble most of the time. But up against a boxer with very good attributes like Wlad, he wasn't prepared to take those chances. He does generally take risks but wasn't foolish enough against a solid, athletic boxer like Wlad. Ali on the other hand has the skills to evade Wlads jabs and get inside. Wlad would rely on his grappling skills and would try and push Ali down before he gets too close.

It would be interesting to see how Ali reacts to Wlad's clinch heavy tactics. For me this would be the key to the fight. Wlad relies heavily on his size and clinching to reduce danger, pace himself and sap the other fighters energy. If Ali somehow negates this, Wlad will be in for a whole lot of hurt straight away.

This fight will need to be in a neutral venue and the referee will have to limit Wlad's constant clinching and pushing down on opponents. If the referee allows the fight to flow, then I can see Wlad wilting under pressure early resulting in a KO/TKO mid to late in the fight.

 

Great post!

 

On every single thread regarding Ali, you mention the exact same points.

You mention the early fights with Cooper etc, and you always mention the Leon Spinks fight when Ali was 36.

Both of those points are completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Why can't you see that?

This thread is discussing both fighters at their absolute peaks, fighting to their full capabilities.

Nobody cares about what happened with a young, brash Cassius Clay.

Nobody cares about the shot version that lost to Leon.

Haye being superior to Spinks means NOTHING.

Ali aged very quickly, whilst Wlad currently in his late 30's, looks great.

That's just circumstances.

Ali at his peak, showed much more than any version of Wlad.