Is it Possible we Overrate Duran?

Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Packey McFarland
Tony Canzoneri
Barney Ross
Henry Armstrong
Ike Williams
Carlos Ortiz
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker

Is it really impossible to believe that someone rated any three of those guys above Duran? How does doing so make someone '******ed'? Is it a factual statement that Duran is one of the three best lightweights of all time or is it an opinion?

 

It is both a " widely " and " generally " accepted opinion by both fans and people involved in the fight game.

There is a difference.

 

Well that's just it, there is no discussion to be had if you put him as the 4th best LW of all time. You seem to agree considering you also said it was a stretch. Maybe ******ed was a bit too far, but not that far to be honest. I love Whitaker and in a h2h sense I think he might be the top guy at that weight. His issue is that at LW only his resume isn't quite as good as others. That's why there is a bit of difficulty rating him.

 

Yes it's impossible to believe there are any 3 on that list rated above duran at LW... I know the fighters involved and listing them didn't change my view. Duran is no worse than no. 2, that is how I, and most people view it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, no problem there.

 

Who the Hell are 'most people'? Most people don't have a clue about boxing history.

 

Plus how many people actually saw any of the fighters that LittleRed posted in a live fight. Not many I would guess. To dismiss the likes of Leonard, Williams, Canzoneri and others without having actually seen them fight live is a little short sighted. Duran is an ATG no question about that but where to place him all time in the lightweight division isn't that cut and dry.

 

Not that you're wrong but with the exception of perhaps a handful of fighters, you can use that line of reasoning against any fighter.

 

"IMPOSSIBLE!! I RATE EVERYONE EXACTLY CORRECTLY, ALWAYS!!!"


- internal monologue of more than half the forum, even those with the sense to produce a soberer draft of reluctantly murmured assent before hitting "Submit Reply". :yep

 

When I was referring to "most people" I was referring to this board and Lefthook forums. The initial conclusion I posted about was that Duran might not be even the 4th best LW ever. That is silly imo and what started the whole discussion. On this very Forum Duran has finished no worse than 2nd on polls listing the best LW's. Other times he's finished first. This boxing forums and others I've visited is what I'm referring to. Let me ask you this.. You don't think it's a bit silly to say Duran might not even be the 4th best LW ever? I do

 

I don't think he's overrated. Some of his early work is really impressive for it's raw, animalistic nature (Marcel, Buchanan). Arcel and Freddy Brown got a hold of him and then the subtleties started to come in to his game. I prefer the 2nd Dejesus fight, but the 3rd was a masterpiece (thought Dejesus was a tad past best). I appreciate the brutality of the Lampkin and Bizarro endings. Hector Thompson was a powerful mofo and Duran dismantled him.
It could be argued his best efforts weren't even at lightweight. The Palomino fights was a masterpiece and of course Leonard I.
I rate the Hagler fight. Hagler was nearly indestrutable at the time and Duran was clearly in his head and earned his respect. A blown up lightweight against Hagler!
I accept no excuses for New Orleans. But even so, I don't think he' overrated.

 

I rate him no.1

But for someone with a very bizarre opinion of Jersey Joe Walcott's all-time standing I would say that perhaps, just perhaps, your opinion should be challenged as much as anyone who could see Duran as merely the no.5 lightweight.

 

Far different list big buddy Flea. My opinion that JJW should be included in a Top 100 list of p4p fighters, is imo, different than Duran not being top 4. I cited my reasons as him beating fellow people on that list, and sometimes twice. Sure, obviously others disagreed with said notion, but I think that's more logical than saying Duran is the 5th best LW. Maybe that's just me and I get what you're saying. Point is though, for somebody who also has him no. 1, I think you would agree it's a little silly to see somebody say he's 5th best or no?

 

Lightweight is perhaps historically THE division with the most really great fighters, so it's not exactly a knock on Duran to say he's ranked at #5 all-time !

 

Not a knock on him but I think it does short change him. I'm in the process of reading a bio on Duran and the more I read about him the more impressed I am by his comp and his ferocity.