Liston Vs Foreman.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Nov 24, 2014.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Styles make fights and it's interesting to see how this would unfold. A few fights come to mind when I consider this fight.

    Naturally, Foreman vs Lyle comes to mind. George showed tremendous heart in out-lasting Ron Lyle. However, it helped that Lyle was not a very polished boxer and often left himself open for George's looping shots. If Foreman were a better boxer, at the time, he would have finished Lyle in 3. Lyle was good but George hit that hard.

    Bare in mind Lyle was never a great boxer, not on Liston's level anyway, he wasn't as fast, strong or as schooled in the game as Liston was.

    Another fight that comes to mind is Liston-Williams. Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight,bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it. Williams had big time power like Foreman. Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out,eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds.

    So according to what we know, Foreman and Liston both met power punchers. Foreman in Lyle, and Liston in Williams. Foreman was dropped twice. Liston hardly blinked.

    Liston 62 was far different from the mentally disoriented zombie who lost to ALI. Taking nothing from ALI, he just did what he does best. ALI's a master at psychological warfare, which is a big part of any contact sport. He took Liston (and later Foreman) out of his game, defusing his strengths.

    George would not have any such success. He would do what he's always done, go right at Liston. There is no great difference in size here. Foreman is 2.5 in taller (no one can ever seem to get these guys' heights right but Foreman was clearly a shade taller than ALI, who was 6'3"). That half inch means nothing. Liston, who stood 6'1", was about 218, to Foreman's 222, again, no great difference.

    Another thing to add, Foreman was fragile in his younger days, somewhat of a Mike Tyson (although with a lot more heart). Easily intimidated, insecure, paranoid ect. And having Sonny Liston, the original intimidator, looking him dead in the eye would throw him right off his game plan. As Teddy Atlas and Cus D'Amato said, boxing is 80% psychological. And Liston, scared of no one, has the advantage going into this fight. If Foreman had the shakes staring at Joe Frazier (Foreman's own words. not mine) then he'd need a change of pants after starting at my man Sonny.

    Liston was a more polished boxer than Foreman ever was. Old George actually became a better boxer and paced himself much better. Ever wonder how an old man can fight effectively into the later rounds, when the same man could not do so twenty years earlier? George never had the stamina problem that Mike Tyson has always had. He actually had good stamina. He just didn't pace himself well and he relied far too much on his power. It's very intoxicating to hit a man and watch him fall. It's even more intoxicating if he doesn't get up.

    Foreman's punches are looping, while Liston's are straight. Foreman would knock a man out sooner than Liston would because he had little regard for defense, unless he was hurt. Against ALI, by the time he needed to really worry about defense, he was too exhausted and ****ed off to do anything about it.

    George would catch Liston early and score a flash knockdown. However, Sonny would be fresher by round 4, having survived the early knockdown in round 2. Sonny would begin to put his punches together and use the jab effectively. George had a good, strong jab too but he didn't use it as well as Sonny used his. That would make the difference.

    Against Sonny Liston, you have to keep a distance and diffuse his jab, disabling him to set up his other punches. Fearless George would walk right into Sonny's hands. In round 6, he gets caught with a solid right and goes down. Foreman is back up but, by round 9, he's running into trouble again. His punches aren't tight and Liston is able to get in a few combinations, setting up another thunderous right. George goes down again. His heart wont let him stay down but he's in a world of trouble as the referee stops the fight shortly before the bell.

    Liston by TKO in 9
     
  2. heavy_handss

    heavy_handss Guest

    Foreman knocks him out inside 5 rounds, the foreman WHO fought lyle was not the same animal that FACED norton, not mentally, he was much less aggrresive,, BY the way, lyle was 220 pounds OF puré muscle and 6'3. Liston was 208( average WEIGHT in his prime) and he was 6'0 1/2. If liston trades with foreman aggrresive like he did with Williams he would
    get destroyed, and he was too ponderous and slow on is feet TO outbox foreman. ,ali and young WERE much faster and still they had TO trade because foreman did cut the ring pretty well, aNd if he was not gassed. He had iron chin early, i cant see liston stopping him early and i cant see liston surviving the early brawl with George
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Please show me one fight (let alone prime fight) Liston weighed 208 in. I look forward to your attempt to backtrack and claim your "point was not IF he weighed 208 pounds exactly" Liston's average prime weight was 215.
     
  4. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    A reasonably possible scenario, though som points betray a bias.

    Again you two bickering about the weighT! I think Liston averaged more like 212, but fine. George would weigh from 217-232 or so during his first career. His body fat was lower than Liston's, & he was even stronger, though both hit tremendously hard.

    The fight with Lyle was past his best. If he was prime, not laid off for 15 + months save for the Montreal fiasco-& a round he was smoking Lyle did not get cut short by accident (2 minutes), it would be over within 3 rounds.

    Liston was impressive in the Williams fights.

    You can add his reach advantage. Yet george did throw some straight punches, jabs & crosses, & the roundabout haymakers.

    I see NO evidence that Foreman was ever easily intimidated!
    He is a notoriously varying & unreliable reporter, combined with being gracious 9some say disengenuous) to a fault in his 2nd career. He JOKED aboutstaring a Frazier so he would not see his shaking knees. he would not have had more than some pre-fight nerves. Did he look or act at all intimindated? Ever?

    I would not call his stamina good, it was better than often portrayed. I DO trust George when he said his nervous energy sapped his endurance, 7 the go for broke style of course too.

    Foreman would not need to keep his distance, Liston would be advised to, but yes, he would need to somewhat defuse the jab, get his own working, & unload.

    I do not know who would win.
     
  5. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

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    Foreman Early blowout.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Regardless of who was the greater fighter, or the better fighter, Liston pretty much has every stylistic argument going for him here.

    If I was Foremans manager, this is one fight that I would avoid like the clap.
     
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Finally! An unbiased opinion.
     
  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good matchup that is hard to pick a winner, I feel it would come down to the will to win and I'd go with Foreman in that department.
     
  9. LouisA

    LouisA Active Member Full Member

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    How? He would come straight at George, I can't see that being a stylistic problem. If there is a collision in the ring I would usually go with the guy with more firepower, and that is George.
     
  10. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    That is the biggest load of garbage I have read on here.

    Ali did not trade with Foreman at all, he went to the ropes and let the big goon punch himself out. All the while taunting him with remarks like " That all you got George?" or " Come on sucker, they told me you could punch "

    He occasionally picked Foreman off, then once he knew there was fvck all left on his punches, opened up and KO'd him.

    Simple as that.
     
  11. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've always felt that Foreman would have blasted Liston out within 6.
     
  12. heavy_handss

    heavy_handss Guest

    Oh, i see that the little kid got mad because i humiliated him BEFORE, dont cry baby, foreman destroys liston early, and janitor, you could not be more WRONG here, stytically it was all OF foreman in advantage, liston could not run, foreman was mentally and physically stronger, he hits harder with both hands, ( despite the opinion OF certain puppet) liston DURING HIS PRIME JUST WEIGHED 204- 212 POUNDS, AND PRE PRIME HE WEIGHED 201, FOREMAN COULD CARRY 230 IN HIS 20S PERFECTLY, LISTON WAS OVERWEIGHT AT 218 BUT THIS SIMPLETON USES THE WEIGHT OF LISTON VS ALI. And saying that it was a prime liston, ok if you use this ponderous pork versión then foreman would kill him easily), if the average. WEIGHT OF prime liston was 208, his average prime weight could
    not be 212 because DURING HIS PRIME. He weighed more times 210 or less than the times that he weighed 212 or more
    ,if you put OF both Men average, lowest or heaviest weight in his 20s, foreman is around. 13- 17 pounds heavier 217 vs 204. 225 vs 212. 232 vs 215. AND NOT THE THE 4 POUNDS THAT CERTAIN SIMPLETON LIAR SAID BEFORE
     
  13. heavy_handss

    heavy_handss Guest

    And the most important thing, foreman won a fight after he got Dropped, he got up and won BY ko, liston never did, he was a coward quitter. And he got knocked out cold ( not because he was tired) BY a bum with average power like martín, you can makeso 100 excuses for this ko, still it is the reallity foreman destroys him
     
  14. heavy_handss

    heavy_handss Guest

    I did check that you repeat phrases OF another posters like a parrot, the 85% OF the threads are started BY you, one thing is sure, ypu are a sad loser with no life probably with mental and ***ual problems, poor guy
     
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    That's not what yo wife said last night when I showed her how a real man does it.
     
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