Are there any decisions where an oppenent got a gift against Ali?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Nov 28, 2014.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Not necessarily a robbery just a close fight that went to the wrong man.
    I think Ali deserved the decision or at least a draw in the first fight against Norton. Before you guys stone me and my beautiful ass, bare in mind that Frazier (who hated Ali massively, and was very close with Norton) and Futch scored that fight a draw. Norton himself admitted it could've gone either way. Norton said in an interview (at which he was sitting beside Ali)
    "The two first fights were close, they could have gone either way, but I knew as soon as the bell rang I won the third fight."
    I also believe Ali (on rounds, NOT points) should've gotten the decision against Frazier.
    I don't know if any of you know the fact that both judges and the referee gave rounds 3 and 4 to Frazier. None of them gave those rounds to Ali. In the third round Ali is just beating Frazier and hitting him with all the punches in the book and then Frazier scored with a hook 10 seconds to go and then hit Ali with a few body shots as Ali covered. That's just not enough to even the round, but actually he was given that round. In the fourth round Ali is doing the same all over. Frazier hit Ali with a hook 40 seconds to go and maybe with two more hooks, but Ali ended that round well with combinations of one-two of his own. Little closer round than third but definitely Ali's. Both of those rounds are Ali's because he controlled a very large part of them and he was never really hurt by Frazier's hooks, not yet that early in the fight. This is how I scored the fight. It's 8-6-1 for Ali.
    1. Ali
    2. Ali
    3. Ali
    4. Ali
    5. Ali
    6. Frazier
    7. Frazier
    8. Frazier
    9. Ali
    10. Ali
    11. Frazier
    12. Frazier
    13. EVEN
    14. Ali
    15. Frazier

    Ali won the first five rounds, and I don't know how Frazier survived that beating. Frazier started to smoke in the fourth round but really his first round was sixth, and then the seventh, but that round was close fought, and in the eight Ali was doing nothing. Ali came back in the ninth when he hurt Frazier and won the tenth also, Frazier almost knocked down Ali in the 11th and that carried him in the 12th, but he started to tire in that round. Ali won first the half of the 13th round and then the best action of the fight on the ropes as they both fire bombs at each other. Frazier got the better of it, but Ali won the first half which makes it an even round. The 14th was Ali's for sure and it looked like Frazier was really tired and he was missing a lot with his hooks, also tried to rest his head on Ali's chest which he was doing during the fight but you here the commentator only mention Ali's holding, but not Frazier's headbutting. And then in the 15th round it looked like Ali was going to whoop Frazier all over again when Frazier suddenly scored a knock down which really saved him. He beat Ali pretty bad for the rest of that round but in the end they were both very tired.
    As I said it's not controversy that Frazier won, he had Ali down in the 15th, badly hurt in the 11th, but if you score the fight round by round Ali won more rounds, especially those two, third and fourth. With those two rounds given to Ali the score would be 8-6-1, 8-7, 6-9, split decision Ali.
    Against Berbick, I had Ali winning 97-93.
    From long range, Ali outscored him decisively with the jab and straight right. He controlled the movement, and I felt clearly deserved credit for ring generalship. He was hardly hit clean on the head, and actually defended himself rather well. When in close, Berbick pounded away at his body, but I saw Muhammad largely negating this in the clinches with his arms blocking or stopping many of Berbick's punches.

    The three middle rounds I gave to Trevor were rounds Ali largely took off and cruised in, seemingly planning for the strong finish he indeed executed. At one point, Berbick did hurt him with a hard right to the head, but Muhammad retreated into a corner and weathered it without risk of getting stopped.

    Having said that I gave him my card conclusively, I'm also happy the judges scored it against him. He had no business being in the ring by then, and might have continued if the judges had seen it as I did.
    I didn't count the blows Berbick landed on his head or while they were clinching, since that's illegal anyway. So I think if you only count the legal blows landed by both Berbick and Ali, I would say Ali pulled it off.
    I await the damnation of the Ali-haters.
     
  2. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd say no to any gift decisions being given against Ali. Norton-Ali 1 was close enough for a draw in my book, it wouldn't take much observation to go one way or the other decision wise. Mercante had Frazier ahead clearly in their 1st go and Ali ahead by one in his 3rd go with Kenny. The only "gift" decision for or against Ali in my book was the Jimmy Young bout.
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Young would repeatedly counter Ali's missed right hands by landing with soft flurries below the belt line. The referee warned Young repeatedly for hitting below the belt early on, but then he just forgot about it while Young continued to do it. So while some people may have scored these flurries as points for Jimmy, I didn't because they were illegal.

    Secondly, it could have counted as a knockdown against Jimmy when he stuck his head and body outside the ring. In the tenth round, Ali actually tried punching Jimmy while he ducked outside the ring. But the referee pulled him off.
    That's why I think Ali won against Young.
     
  4. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Does swagdelfadeel believe that " ALL " boxing is about Heavyweights?

    Because to be honest his apparent obsession with them has become boring now.
     
  5. FastHands(beeb)

    FastHands(beeb) Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The answer to the OP's question is clearly no.
     
  6. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I Suppose you could include The Ref's Decision to award Chuck Wepner a Knockdown Against Ali as a "Gift decision" A Little Gift to Chuck which Gave him some notoriety apparently Influenced Sylvester Stallone to create the rocky Character.. And which i gather Chuck subsequently "Obtained" Financial Settlement ..So indeed a gift of Sorts...
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yep.
     
  8. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You could say Chuvalo, who repeatedly fouled Ali in their first bout and was never pulled up for it.
     
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Terrell also did this.