How much did the Fotc take out of smoking Joe?

Agree here...FOTC took a lot out of Smoke physically, but virtually everything motivationally. Truth be told Manila aside I doubt that Joe prepared with the same insensity for any fight after FOTC.

 

Right on the spot.
And there´s no doubt that Frazier underestimated Foreman. He was not the force he used to be.
Add to that the fact that in Jamaica Foreman was very diciplined and followed the instructions from his cornemen Sadler and Moore. Foreman´s jab was never better than in the first fight. He kept Frazier at bay, kept him out of balance and totally neutrelized Frazier´s punches.

 

Exactly. If you look at his fights after the fight of the century, literally every single one (including the overrated Thrilla) he just didnt have the same fire as in the past. He was no longer smokin. But look at the FOTC and before and every performance was intense and high energy. Literally, you can go down the list and he was just bringing it every single time. After Ali when I watch those fights after March 1971 you just get a feeling that somewhere deep down hes going through the motions. A perfect example was in the Bugner fight. He hurts Bugner in a corner, badly buckles his knees, and then literally pulls his punch allowing Bugner a split second to recover before he finally goes down. The old Frazier would have levelled Bugner then and there and probably finished him. Then when Bugner rises Frazier doesnt even really pounce on him. He half heartedly lands a quick flurry after Bugner gets up but then proceeds to just follow him around the ring. You could tell he was arm weary and just didnt have the same intensity as the old Frazier. That style by the way tends to burn guys out pretty young anyway so its entirely surprising.

 

FOTC took more out of Joe than it did Muhammad.

 

I think Joe beat George late, this version, anyways.

 

He was never the same again, Stevie. I often wonder how many fighters could have beaten Ali that night, and I think the answer is "not many".

 

Lots of good posts ! FOTC Frazier was a beast and I feel would have been a problem for lots of ATG heavies. I feel that both physically and mentally, Frazier never had `it` after that special night. I think he brought all that he had to Manila... But, truth be told,there wasn,t much left of he and Ali after that... The types of fights they had are the ones that you leave chunks of yourself in the ring...

 

I believe it was all mental, he reached his zenith and no longer had a mountain to climb. There have been fighters that had been in serious wars and came back as better fighters, so I don't look at it as if it ruined him physically.