How Many Previous Champs Does Wlad Beat?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Dec 5, 2014.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I always thought that Lewis would be his kryptonite.

    He might be able to outbox Lewis, but he could never out fight him.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The thing is, at the type of range Lewis-Vitali was fought at, both men were very available for punches. There is just no control of distance with two men that size, it doesn't happen. Where out-fighting is concerned between these guys, it's a matter of nerve, accuracy and speed. Presuming, and I think it is now reasonable to do so, that Wlad's nerve holds, there are no discernible advantages for either man that I can see, really, and if there are they belong to Wlad (speed). Chin and power just aren't factors because if one blasts the other he is in very bad trouble.

    Lewis could definitely win, but I just think Wlad could too. It's not boxing as we know it.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    What is Wlad going to do when Lewis turns it into a brawl on the inside, as he will if he doesn't have his way on the outside?

    I am not sure that Wlad has much to answer that with.
     
  4. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    The matchup is never chin vs chin; it's power vs chin. Having a better chin than your opponent doesn't matter if they still hit hard enough to knock you out. Lennox hits hard enough to knock out Wlad, but I believe you're clearly discounting that Wlad has the power to one-shot Lennox with either hand.

    Specifically, I've seen Lewis knocked out twice by single right hands that aren't as good as Wlad's, which is one of the best the division has ever seen.

    We may well see Lennox attack early, but it's going to be at significant risk against a fighter whose got ample experience against that exact same gameplan since people have been using it (unsuccessfully) for years.

    Lennox also has the power to get to Wlad early, which is why this is such an interesting fight. My bet is that it'd turn into a boxing match because of each man's cautiousness and awareness of that fact. Each may only get one mistake before they're made to pay dearly.

    Who would I favor? I'd call it a toss up, but with a decided edge to whoever gets Manny in their corner for it.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But it wouldn't be fought "on the inside." We've seen the range it would be fought at. A sort of uncomfortable no man's land usually named mid-range but that doesn't really look like mid-range because of the length of range on these guys.

    What Wlad would do, is try and hit him, then try and tie him up. Try and hit him with punches. Mostly with the left-hook, apparently. Not co-incidently, this is exactly what Lewis would be trying to do. It's a roll of the dice and there's really nothing to suggest that Lewis would necessarily have an advantage in landing first, which is of enormous importance here.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, exactly right.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    The reason Lewis was so successful, was that he could outbox anybody he couldn't out fight, and he could out fight anybody he couldn't outbox.

    If the outside game wasn't working for him, he would definitely take it to the inside with the uppercut, and I don't think that trying to hold him would be enough.

    Lewis was incredibly strong himself, and a real bruiser on the inside, dirty as well.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, with two glaring exceptions, this is the case.

    But in every case, it was because Lewis took control over the action. What i'm saying is, the relative size and quality of these fighters precludes his taking control in the normal way.
     
  9. Outstock

    Outstock PBR Full Member

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    But it wouldn't be fought "on the inside." We've seen the range it would be fought at."

    Lewis - Vitali wasn't fought at range like some fencing match. They were all over each other like lovers.
    Vitali made it that bit harder because of his superior control of distance , but Lewis still penetrated him and bust him up.
    Wlads jab and hugging isn't going to stop Lewis boring in and Wlad is a sitting duck when he does.
     
  10. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    On his best night he could beat anyone with the proper plan, he has the skill but on his worst night he can lose to any of the best
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    First of all, at no time have I described "a fencing match."

    Negative; almost all the punching was done at an awkward version of mid-range. The "all over each other like lovers" is oft repeated because a) it's oft repeated making it truth by repetition and b) that uppercut was thrown on the inside, and it sticks in people's heads. Highlights:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCaohPudiu4

    Watch it or flip through it, the amount of punching on the inside is absolutely minimal, almost insignificant.

    What happens is, they take away one-another's jabs by virtue of their size and react accordingly. They don't have to jab for openings because openings are made available by virtue of their positioning.

    All of this is on film, and is very clear.

    That absolutely isn't what happened. Vitali was up for "penetrating" (S******) Lewis every bit as much as Lewis was up for penetrating Vitali. At no point did Vitali really try to establish distance - maybe passingly for tactical reasons, but strategically? Absolutely not. Vitali just started to lose the fight, due to Lewis's attributes.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Look at the way Lewis mauls Michael Grant on the inside when he tries to hold on and tie him up, and look at how he slips the clinches.

    I just don't see Wlad having any very good answer for that.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why? Why on earth would we look at a low-class super-heavy when we have Vitali-Lewis?

    The whole point is that when he was faced with a heavyweight of class, as opposed to one that inexplicably bends at the waist like he's looking for a contact lens, he couldn't control the fight. That's not a reflection on him; it looks to me like top-class superheavies negate each other by virtue of a combination of class and size. It invites chaos.

    I wouldn't look at Grant, really, to see what Lewis would do to Wlad any more than I would look Wach to see what Wlad would do to Lewis.
     
  14. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    lewis being able to counterpunch reasonably competently and throw at the same time as the other man competently would be a fair advantage against Wlad, i think.

    Wlad is much more, "your turn, my turn...more specifically my turn then i tie you up, move out of the way"

    Vitali was much harder mentally and more comfortable trading.


    Still, Lewis has been blasted out twice by lesser fighters emphasising the one two so who knows.A lot might depend on what sort of shape he turns up in.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Personally I would look at the Wach fight to get some ideas what Wlad might do.

    If we project this fight going the distance, or close to the distance, then it becomes an important frame of reference.
     
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