Prime Mike Tyson vs Prime Wlad Klitschko

If someone wants to argue that might could beat Wlad, that's a reasonable opinion to have. Given Mikes struggles with super heavies, thinking that Wlad would win is also a reasonable opinion.
I gotta go with Wlad, but the only thing I am absolutely sure of is that Herol Gee is a terrible poster, a complete idiot, and overall a piece of dog sh!t.:thumbsup

 

prime mike tyson beats everyone

why do people keep posting these ridiculous polls ?

 

Because almost nobody agrees with that statement. Most people believe either Louis, Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, V. Klitscko, W. Klitschko, or Buster Douglas could beat a prime Tyson.

Ya know, considering Mikes best wins were old Larry and little Spinks, to just say Mike beats anyone seems a little odd to me. I mean, he was very impressive at times, but his record really isn't all that. And his time on top was extremely short.

 

This is my honest opinion for what it's worth.


That night in Tokyo was a culmination of two things.

Which were:

Mike not been physically and mentally at 100%.

James Douglas having sadly lost his mother just prior to the fight, which gave him a will of absolute iron.


I don't think people realise just how much psychology plays in the outcome of a fight.

It would have taken a great HW on the top of his game to have beaten that version of James. That Tokyo version of James was never seen again. Would Evander have beaten James in Tokyo, in just three rounds? IMHO, not a chance.

Now people scoff at the idea that a guy at 23/24 could have been past his best. They can't comprehend it, because he was so young. But again, psychology, a fighters mindset, plays a huge role in any fight and their careers. Now you can have a great physique, that at 23, has a good few years left. But it's no good without the will. Skills are no good without the dedication, and vice versa. The two things have to go hand in hand, to be successful at the top.

Was Mike past his best at just 23/24? Yes he was. Because he'd lost his focus. He'd stopped committing himself to his training. He'd stopped trying to learn. He was a 24 year old kid from off the streets, who'd suddenly came in to millions of dollars, which had turned his head. He was a notorious womaniser. His private life was a total mess, with his sham of a marriage. But even worse, Don King had gotten his claws in, and in training he was just going through the motions.

Now you may not have had an ounce of sympathy for Mike. But who are we to judge, when we didn't live his life, and had the same opportunities that he did? Everyone has a different set of circumstances surrounding them. Life is defined by circumstances and opportunities. I'm almost 35, and I consider myself to be an intelligent guy. But at 24, I was an idiot.

So I can understand how is career turned out the way it did. But the signs of Mike's early decline, were evident in the Bruno fight. He'd lost focus. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If he hadn't have got married, and he'd have stuck with Bill Cayton, and not let take King take his eye, as well as fully committing to himself to training and still wanting to learn, things would have turned out very different. But you do stupid things when you're young, and who wouldn't have had their head turned by King at that time?

This isn't a plea to his detractors for sympathy. But after the money and the women came in, along with the Nintendo adverts, the chat shows, the sponsorships, and the attention of the worldwide media, Mike Tyson at just 24 years of age, wasn't the same man, and fighter, that he'd been just a few years earlier.

So Mike was past prime at an early age. Again, you may have no sympathy, but it's the truth as I see it. Mike did not commit himself both physically and mentally for that fight in Tokyo, and Douglas when he was motivated, was a great fighter.

So again, you'd got a guy who'd taken short cuts, who was there because he was obligated too, to pick up a cheque, against a guy who probably wouldn't have cared if he'd have been facing Godzilla on that one particular night.

IMHO, if Mike had've been at 100% both physically and mentally, and he'd have fought to his full capabilities, and James had not sadly lost his mother, then the fight would have been completely different.

But we know that the word 'if' is the biggest word in the dictionary.

After Tokyo, Mike was never the same.

Post prison Mike was a shell of his former self.

There was no head movement, poor timing, hardly any combinations, with short cuts in training, and surrounded by a group of 'yes' man to massage his ego.

A sad end, to what could have been a very different outcome.

But if a guy is not at 100% both physically and mentally, and he's not fighting to his full capabilities, and he isn't in love with what he's doing, with a will to learn and a burning desire to succeed, then he isn't giving his best, no matter how old he is.

That's what happened to Mike in the late 80's.

So you can scoff, but Mike was past his best in his early 20's, due to a culmination of what's written above.

Now you can ask 'how is it possible?' when seemingly almost every other fighter peaks in the late 20's.

But the answer is, no two people are the same, with the same circumstances surrounding them. Therefore, you can't do direct comparisons.

When Mike was released from prison in 1995, he was only 29 years old. That should have been his physical peak. But mentally, he'd fallen out of love with boxing a long time before. The guy who had stayed up for hours on end, studying the greats of the past, as a student of the game, had long since disappeared.


Back on topic, looking at the question in the thread title. To the members who think that Wlad would have beaten Mike, on the basis of that they think Wlad was better than Douglas, I think they need to have a rethink and ask themselves certain questions.

1. In this fantasy match up, would Wlad have faced the version of Mike that Douglas did?

2. Would Wlad have fought Mike, with the same confidence, will, and determination, that Douglas did?


IMHO, a fully fit, Rooney trained version of Mike, fighting to his full capabilities after a great camp, beats any version of Wladimir Klitschko.

 

Good post Loudon. Don't expect the nuthuggers to take it on board. Excuses apply only to Wlad and no one else.

 

You said you would give Wlad credit if he faced, and beat Pulev. Still waiting to hear it..... :think

 

There are about 100 excuses in that post, if the same was said about Wlad you'd be up in arms right now. atsch

 

No , there are no excuses in there. Mike's personal problems are well documented facts. If you read any of his autobiography's you'd know that.

 

I came here to say this. Tailor made for prime Mike. Brutal KO.

 

yet another post where Dino and Herol scream about their hatred for Wlad... I've seen 6 pages of Herol accusing people of ignoring facts and misunderstanding his posts regarding a made up fight.

you're both a couple of jokes and Mr Gee for your information the fact that stiffs like Tillis and smith can go the distance with Tyson means that Wlad should have no problem taking him the distance as well. to that point it becomes a question of do you think Tyson can win a points victory?

Wlad by KO round 6

 

quote the hatred, or admit you were wrong.


you cant throw your toys out the pram when people disagree with you, its not mature.

its interesting that when I support wlad you never peep a word.

 

conoveli vs herolgee make it happen.

 

Tyson demise was his own doing though. he had poor longevity. You need a special mindset to peak so early AND maintain that peak into your 30s, that's why so many early peakers burn out - they don't have the mental capacity to cope. They see life as "line on a graph" that goes straight up...and they simply cannot imagine what they do when they reach the top of that line, since all their life has been built toward moving up that line. Once that house is built at so young an age, where do they go? they think their house is complete. They think THEY are complete, they have become great., and the don't need to build anymore - they thus lose the needfulness to train and learn and expand. This kind of lifestyle goes hand in hand with the "make it big" individualist capitalist/thatcherite stance of the 80s. Burnout results - the motives you have simply no longer work anymore once you achieve them.

To extend an early peak, you need to see life as something that expands and contracts as time goes by, that way you have something to build on as you get older.. But this is not the way young men see life, and young Tyson surely had this fault.


in that sense wlad trumps him, wlads longevity is excellent.Wlad is simply more mature and intelligent than young mike, and he also knows a lot about matchmaking, far more than mike did. he has expanded and contracted his career to suit where he is in life.

This is what kliit****s should hark about, because its true, but inventing mythical abilities for wlad in order to cover up his h2h weakness getting destroyed by journeymen and retirees is silly - because it happened!

 

You have down syndrome

 

Get back to curry munching