What of Jeffries now?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Dec 12, 2014.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    It seems that no other fighter has fallen so far in terms of legacy as has Jim Jeffries. A guy considered unprecedented during his reign, truly the best ever heavyweight, has now fallen out of most folks' top 15 lists. Jack Johnson has been the focus of documentaries and new examinations of his career. Sam Langford has found his rightful place as one of the greatest fighters ever. Likewise, Greb has developed a cult following and has joined the pantheon.

    No such attention to the career of Jeffries. Why so? And where do you rank him legacy wise and head to head? Was he merely good for his time, physically a man operating among boys? Is he an anachronistic fossil or does his style have relevance to the modern game?

    Interested in thoughtful responses.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Jeffries suffered from the lack of footage of him in his prime. This caused his star to wane, while those of Louis, Dempsey, and even Johnson, endured because the evidence was there on film. It likely also didn't hemp that he actively shunned the spotlight, and didn't particularly care about his historical standing.

    So what can we say about him?

    His accomplishment in winning the heavyweight title in just over a dozen professional fights was incredible, and will likely never be repeated. His physical advantages over his opponents have to be judged against the fact that he was a ridiculously inexperienced fighter, being thrown in against much more experienced opponents.

    As champion, he set a standard for frequency and quality of title defences, that would not be matched until Joe Louis came on the scene. All but one of his title fights was won by knockout.

    Head to head, it is obviously harder to say how he stacks up, but there is no reason to think that he could not have been a force in any era. He had size, speed and durability, and he was probably one of the best body punchers that the heavyweight division ever saw.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He's not a hero to anyone. Or almost no-one.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Two main reasons.

    1. Lack of clear film in his prime. Guys look best on film when they win. 95% of boxing fans have only seen clips ( Not rounds ) of Jeffries as an older / inactive fighter from his 1910 comeback fight with Johnson. To parallel, what if the only film on Ali was his outing vs. Holmes? Or What if the only film of Louis vs. Marciano? For those who watch the films ( I have several rounds ) they are close until the end.

    2. Jeffries himself wasn’t a media friendly type of guy

    However if the fighter’s testimonials of the time mean anything Corbett, Johnson, Langford, Burns and Dempsey said he was the greatest. Jeffries was a big man with athleticism, speed, power, durability and stamina that would rate high in any era.

    Jeffries moved quickly up the ladder, and cleaned out the top three opponents ( Fitzsimmons, Sharkey and Corbett ) in a years time. He scored at least one knock down in all his fights, save the Johnson fight when he was shot.

    Head to head and legacy wise he's in my top ten
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He never really was during his title reign though!

    People might have thought that he was invincible, but they didn't really like him.

    Take away his aura of invincibility, and what has he then got?
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The underlined is not true.

    Jeffries won only the 4th round and 9th of the early rounds,some were fairly even until the 6th
    I 've read all the news reports.
    Fitzsimmons, who was ringside said Johnson could have ended it anytime he liked.Rickard ,the refreee, said Johnson toyed with Jeffries and was his superior in every department including strength the papers agreed with him.
    The round by round reports stated Johnson as thre stronger from the outset .
    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85052114/1910-07-04/ed-1/seq-1/#words=BIG+FIGHT


    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7/#words=Lack+Skill+Boxing+Helped+Johnson+Win


    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7-05/ed-1/seq-5/#words=WinThe+Fight+By+Ronnds
    You just keep repeating the same old lies.

    The round by round reports are available for anyone to access. Above are just three that flatly contradict you.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries heartily disliked the public and was downright rude to them,they in turn, respected him but never warmed to him.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Only one I can think of.:yep
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It was repeated in fact bettered,[ 7 fights,] by Leon Spinks.
    Jim Corbett won the crown in his 14th fight.Jeffries in his 13th.

    Jeffries had size in his era, fighting, smaller ,older men ,today he would be a small heavyweight,facing bigger men of the same age.:think
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Part of what I was getting at. He seemed like a real *****. I wonder how that colored his legacy.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Hard to say, but perhaps significantly.

    One thing that I have noticed in all branches of history, is that the person who lives longest, and has the most supporters, generally writes history!
     
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I rate Jeffries extremely high on accomplishment. However his star has dimmed for two reason both touched on:

    1. Very little quality footage of him in his prime.
    2. His ill advised comeback. He was clearly fighting on the wrong side of history. He got thrashed. If Jack Johnson were a white fighter or if Jeffries were a black man fighting Johnson under the exact same situation I don't think he would be as tarnished as he is today. Passing of the torch fights rarely affect the king about to be slain ala louis Marciano or Ali to Holmes but with the social ramifications and implications of race being such a backdrop to his 1910 comeback, the loss and manner in which he lost cripples his legacy. He was truly a great fighter in my estimation. Not sure his style would translate well as the sport advanced but he was a giant figure for his day.
     
  14. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is true. Like Spinks, Jeffries also took the title from a 36 year old man

    Jeffries is also to blame for the race riots as he failed to defeat Johnson