What of Jeffries now?

Is it possible that Jim Jeffries fought Hank Griffin in a private setting during the 1890s? If it was a public bout in Los Angeles, I think that there would be some contemporary mention of it.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Why didn't Jeffries, Martin, or Childs ever mention these fights?

 

If he did, how does this fight differ from the other fights claimed? Jeff got in the ring with a pro fighter in these other fights and apparently knocked most of them out, although we don't have newspaper records. In this case he got in the ring with pro fighter Hank Griffin and knocked him out, although we don't seem to have a ringside account either.

 

I really think that the difference lies in the definition of what is an actual fight as opposed to an exhibition. I dont think most of us consider this nowadays. I certainly dont think that an exhibition back then was anything like what we term an exhibition, in most cases. Each type of exhibition could be different. Some times it started friendly and went all in. Other times, it was all in from the start. Others it might be all in, but with the parties not following up on advantages, or one of the other parties trying to look bad.

If a fighter shows up for a match, but the match isnt made until after he gets to the arena is this really an exhibition or a fight? Does the situation change if the local promoter says winner gets some coin thrown their way. Does the exhibition become a fight if at round 3 both fighters decide to hell with this, i am going all in, or if the winner or loser decides this. Is it only a fight if you know who your opponent is, what his style is and both are giving weeks to train and study your opponent? The line is blurred.

Depending on your definition in fact, even today, there are i am sure quite a few fights that do not make the record books. We often hear how sparring doesnt count, but is this always the case? If two guys are all in then i would have thought that it could have every relevance. Obviously there are times where guys work on different things and it means nothing. But if Mayweather and Manny meet in the gym tomorrow, dont like each other and decide to settle there differences away from cameras and newspapers, does this fight cease to exist?

Even as champion, i can remember around the time of the Finnegan fight, i think it was of reading an article criticising Jeffries for always fighting 4th raters when he came to town. Today these fights are written off as exhibitions and not even considered, but they were probably fights where jeffries opponent tried to win (in the most famous of these Monroe supposedly actually knocked him down and got a title defence out of it). Jeffries presumably was not all in for the most part, but i am sure he became serious when the circumstances required it. Even as champion, these fights are not all recorded.

The fitzsimmons exhibitions, as a starter, are actually very, very interesting. Neither KOd the other or tried to, but no doubt both would have KOd lesser fighters with the shots that they landed on each other.

 

Why didn't Childs or Martin challenge any press that listed a Ko'd by result?

 

Thank you.

I just re-read the section of Adam's biography of Jeff covering the Griffin fight and he writes this--

"An 1898 San Francisco Chronicle reproduction of Jeffries' record lists an 1893 bout against Hank Griffin in Los Angeles as a 15 round knockout victory for Jeffries. This was the earliest listing for the fight."

You and Adam therefore agree. Also important to me, this seems to imply from Adam what I thought to be true--there was no mention of this fight in the 5/22/1896 newspaper piece.

Now I don't really question that the Griffin fight took place, but I do find it very, very strange that Jeff's manager, described by Adam as his second in the Griffin fight, would not have mentioned it in 1896. Why make up bogus fights to impress and not mention this impressive real one? Griffin seems to have been an imposing heavyweight by the standards of the day, much bigger than Childs or Cotton.

There was a George Griffin mentioned, but the short "He put George Griffin out in eleven seconds." certainly doesn't seem to be referring to the same fight, nor probably the same boxer.

Boxrec lists the Hank Griffin fight as in December, 1896, but Jeff clearly stated several times it was his first fight and that he was a teenager. I can think of no reason at all for Jeff not to be truthful about the year.

From In the Ring With James J. Jeffries--"Jeffries said that he made between $400 and $500 for the Griffin fight."

Well, it couldn't have been all that obscure. This was a significant amount of money in the 1890's.

*The average income for an American worker in 1900 was $438 according to the census report.

 

He had only 20 fights and 3 good opponents who were near the end of their career.It's not that his legacy has fallen,is that so many great boxers have accomplished more since then.

 

It's fascinating that we can argue about whether or not a fight actually took place. And I'm not being sarcastic.

 

I am not saying that an 1890s bout between Jim Jeffries and Hank Griffin in private shouldn't be included on either fighter's record. But I was wondering how such a bout could escape any contemporary mention in the press. If it was a public bout, it is more likely that it would be mentioned in the press simply to attract a crowd.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Why didn't Jeffries claim the victories, especially when he was castigated for not fighting black challengers?

 

Why didn't Childs or Martin challenge any press that listed a Ko'd by result?

Jeffries had 100+ EX matches, and many undocumented fights. He never mentioned wins over Griffin, Jackson, or Armstrong when they asked him about the color line. So why would he mention earlier career matches?

Jeffries did say he considered Johnson an opponent after he KO'd Munroe in 1904. It can be read in an older post.

And as you know, Jeffries offered Jack Johnson a private fight. Johnson declined. Had Johnson taken his lumps, then made up a story as Munroe did, Jeffries might have fought him. Or had Johnson beaten Hart convincingly and Reno like purse was there, Jeffries might have accepted.

What fighters say and do after a big purse is offered can change.

 

Jeffries did not have many undocumented fights he detailed his bouts himself and he never mentioned fighting Martin or Childs not once in his life.

.His exhibitions ,both at home and abroad were against humpty dumpties the same as Fitz's.
Jeffries countless times categorically stated he would never defend his title against a black man and every ****er knows it.
I could produce 20 direct quotes from him to prove it and have done in the past, but you are not worth the effort because you have no credibility here and are just a compulsive liar.


As usual you are full of ****.

 

Jeffries' best attribute seems to have been his physicality. When looking back, boxing fans can't help but wonder how the heroes of today and only just past would have done in a direct confrontation with those ancient greats. Muhammad Ali's speed vs Klitschko's reach, the explosiveness of Tyson vs the strength and boxing acumen of Liston, there are arguments to be made for both sides.

The argument for Jeffries is difficult. He was strong, durable, and had stamina, a stubborn fighter that was clearly determined. He was often hit, and didn't seem to guard that well. His stance is weird. You struggle to imagine him winning against many heavyweights in the sixties and seventies.

 

hed get wasted against the fighters you have mentioned and Jersey Joe Walcott would make him look silly to say the least