Big John Tate

Tate looked real bad. He was not going to beat a Scott Frank by that point in time.
Some of those fights were on ESPN and regional cable networks. type stuff against C grade opponents. No more A+ results for John Tate.

tough and unforgiving sport once a guy goes down that ladder.

 

I never knew about any of this, Thanks! very good interesting post...

 

I'd like to here how you guys think John Tate when on top of his game like when he fought Knoetzee, Coetzee and Weaver would fair against other early 80's heavyweights such as Page, Tubbs, Witherspoon, ****ey, Thomas, Tucker, Dokes, Williams and of course the man himself Larry Holmes... Do you think he could've presented a tough challenge for Larry Holmes while he was champ?

 

By the time Tate had faced Gerrie, he had faced some good opponents, so even though Gerrie was a good fighter, he would've won.I understand the magnitude of the event being a factor, but Tate was a real good fighter.Like Zadfrak said, Greg hurt Gerrie earlier in the fight. And they should've given Gerrie a rematch.But Page still would've beaten him.

 

I think he edges Tucker and Thomas.Loses a close, very close verdict to Larry, especially if they fought in late 80/early 81 if Tate had stayed on course.Carl Williams edges him, as does Witherspoon and Tubbs.Both Page and Dokes would avenge their amateur defeats against him by unanimous decisions in competitive fights.

 

I don't think he would have beaten prime Thomas. Thomas could jab with him and had the far better chin. Thomas was the best heavyweight in the world arguably, in 1984-85. His win over a prime Witherspoon was really impressive.

 

I haven't seen much of Thomas but I'm not impressed with his jab so far. Throws an awkward jab from the waist. Seems to have some power though. I watched him back in the 80's & remembered his jab bothering Tyson some. Good chin.

 

It was.I was thinking with the comp Tate faced, and lets be real, Pinklon probably didn't face the comp that Big John faced coming up, would give Tate an edge.

 

good points all very true

 

Big John was one of my favourite fighters and his win over Coetzee was massive at the time. Holmes was yet to establish himself and Tate was being touted as a champion with a long career ahead of him. In hindsight Holmes would've beaten any version of Tate but I like his chances against Page who was another boxer some thought was the next big thing.

The Tate story ended in tragedy but his accomplishments were greater than most can ever dream of, Olympic bronze, World Champion............he was far from a failure.:rasta

We will never forget you John.

 

Look at how far the guy went with that management. Borderline incredible.

Ace Miller back then was hardly a big name trainer when you had guys like Dundee/Futch/etc and elder statesmen like Freddie Brown.

And Tate was hardly a favorite with Arum. Bob fed him to the wolves with that matchmaking and could have matched him softer and easier. Like he does and did with most of his mealtickets.

Such a tough sport when the fighter is far better than his corner. Top champions have top corners. It's just so tough for a guy like a John Tate to get to the top, let alone stay there. Everything is a Mount Everrest.

If John would have gotten a fight w/ a shot Lyle like discussed, instead of Weaver. Then a Ledoux type face first guy. Like lots of guys, "if only".

 

^ Excellent post. Spot on.

Tate certainly was fed to the wolves early on; fighting undefeated Walter Santemore and Eddie Lopez in fights 4 and 5. Then undefeated Bernardo Mercado. Definitely "the '0' must go" type fights between young prospects.

Weaver & Berbick probably looked like safe opponents. Weaver probably looked like a fringe contender who had a good night against a sick Holmes. There wasn't much indication, at that point, that he'd turn into a top heavyweight. And Tate had his way with him, for the most part, for 14 3/4 rounds. Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time Weaver might have looked like a safer bet than Lyle, who hadn't lost since 1976 (until he ran into Lynn Ball in December 79, a loss that I assume killed a Tate-Lyle fight).

Berbick was a bit too soon, but he was a guy who drew with Leroy Caldwell three fights before and who got sparked by previous Tate victim Mercado. Again, he probably looked like a safe 'get back on the horse' type of opponent. The Tate fight pretty much made Berbick.

As a young fan, I really wanted to see Tate come back from the Weaver & Berbick losses. But when I saw him fight on cable TV shows in the early 80's, he looked average at best.

 

One thing nobody has mentioned is that there was talk of Tate getting a title shot in late 83 early 84 during his comeback. I think it would have been against Holmes for his newly minted IBF title. Tate hadn't fought anyone of note since the Berbick loss so he really didn't deserve it in my mind. For some reason, which I can't remember the title shot didn't happen and Tate did not fight for several years between late 83 and I believe 1985.

 

The Weaver fight which he was dominating ended badly for him. Hard to come back from such a devastating KO loss

 

They should've matched Big John with Alfredo Evangelista post Weaver.