Who did better vs Frank Moran? Jack Johnson or Jess Willard?

There are those who think that Moran vs Johnson was close enough to have been considered a draw. 'Nuff said.

 

willard clearly did better, but he had a style adv, and an older moran

 

Yes, the Johnson vs Moran fight was very close. A very close fight can easily be seen as a draw. Obviously, Willard did better against Moran.

 

coming towards the end of it, but there isn't a huge difference between the two vesions.

 

Willard

 

Willard may have done better but both were very dull fights. Context is key. Johnson was thirty six, fat, in poor shape and far past his best when he fought Moran.

 

I dont get this hogwash about Johnson-Moran being so close. The newspapers that witnessed the fight said the "outcome was never in doubt" and lauded an older "dissipated" Johnson for being able to get into get into the kind of shape that it takes to outpoint a younger strong hard punching fighter over 20 rounds. The Willard fight was considered the better fight of the two, but that also means that there was more action and more opportunities for Moran. Neither fight was considered a classic and in both fights Moran forced the fight with the champion laying back and doing enough to stay out in front. As Grant pointed out Willard had a heck of a lot less mileage on the odometer than Johnson at this point. Willard may have done better. Thats a debateable point and given that neither fight has even half of the film footage surviving its a skewed view one may come away with from the viewing. But asking which one faired better against Moran is kind of like asking which guy faired better with the flu: the one who puked his guts up for three days or the guy who **** his guts out for three days.

 

Lately I find some agenda posts too tiresome to bother with.

 

They both beat Moran fairly comfortably.

 

I also heard mixed things about the Johnson Moran .. I've read accounts that Johnson won and it was not a nail bitter .. at that point for sure Johnson was living a vagabond life in exile, did not train and keep in shape, got by on exceptional defense and control of pace, similar to the mid forty year old Hopkins ..

 

Here are some interesting observances of the fight from French sources:

Le Cri de Paris: "Johnson had a cakewalk with a fighter he probably could have rid himself of in a few minutes." This paper alleged that Johnson carried Moran because he was an owner of 2/3 of the motion picture revenue and hoped to make money by making the film longer and making Moran look good for white audiences.

Le Journal: "The Negro champion of the world dominated his challenger for twenty rounds." and "Almost from the beginning of the contest it seemed as if the fight would not last ten rounds. This was a mistake because Johnson never pressed his attack and the contest lasted the limit."

Le Matin: "Jack Johnson smiled throughout the contest, smiled openly, smiled at his seconds, and laughed at Frank Moran whenever Moran would hit him in the stomach. The public was disgusted with his exhibition." The paper compared Moran to a school boy playing the role of a general who is then confronted with having to fill the generals shoes and is ill prepared for the task at hand. It intimated that while Moran was brave he appeared to lose confidence the instant Johnson entered the ring.

Le Petit Parisien: "He (Johnson) beat Moran on points easily."

L'Humanite: "By the third round Johnson had asserted his superiority over Moran." "The match was disappointing, one is left with the impression that Moran is not in Johnson's class." "Johnson clearly won on points but he is no longer the Johnson of old."

Le Figaro: This paper also said Johnson had the fight firmly in his grasp by the third round despite it being a dull monotonous affair. "Moran did not understand that at 27 years old he must take the fight to the 36 year old Johnson." By the tenth round Johnson was in such control that the author expected him to land a knockout blow at any moment. "Defeat (for Moran) was a certainty." The paper stated that Johnson was "infinitely better than Moran" and his smiling and mocking of an opponent so inferior was beneath him.

La Sport Universel Illustre: "Frank Moran, despite all of his inferiority, despite his poor quality, will now be able to avail himself of the privilege of having gone twenty rounds with Jack Johnson." "It was twenty rounds of monotony which ended in Johnson winning his victory without having to utilize his scientific knowledge of boxing."

Most accounts mention Moran bleeding constantly throughout from his nose and that a cut above his eye affected his vision.

So where are all of these first hand sources that talk about how close this contest was and how it could have gone either way or been a draw?? The lengths that "some people" will go to in order to discredit Johnson are quite simply ridiculous.