Before the Ruiz fight, no one in boxing had fought and beat more top 10 ranked fighters then Jones. After Ruiz was added to that list, it included fighters ranked at 160, 175, 190 and heavyweight.
Excellent post and points. I would be interested in seeing how Jones would stand up in the 40s, if he had to fight a schedule as grueling as Lloyd Marshall. BTW, Marshall's destruction of Mills holds up as well as any of Roy's Light Heavyweight victories. On tape and on paper.
:good Have you seen their sparring sessions from the Kronk? I think they were on YouTube a while ago.
The Mongoose, You've clearly implied all throughout this thread, that Roy didn't want the big fights, and he was happy to clown average guys. That's how your posts read. I was just as frustrated as you. But I can appreciate the difficulty involved in making fights. Go and re read your posts. They don't read like you were just frustrated. Again, they read as though Roy didn't want them. You've even criticised him for the Hopkins rematch not taking place. Which quite frankly, is a joke. He did more than enough in his career, to give him a fair rating. How many guys did he actually miss, that would have brought bigger challengers than the ones he fought? There's only a handful. Well your comment here, tells me what sort of a guy you are. Joe clowning Roy, was nothing like Roy showboating against the guys that he fought. I'll tell you why. Because every guy who Roy showboated against, was due to there being animosity in the build up to the fights. He showboated against Paz, Hall and Telesco etc, because guys like Telesco had mouthed off and criticised him. There's nothing wrong with showboating. But in Joe's case it was completely different. He was asked by the media about a potential Tarver fight. His response was "Tarver's done nothing apart from beat faded versions of Roy." He then wrote in his autobiography that a match with Roy would be pointless. Then early in 2008, he joked in an interview that Roy was past his best, and said he'd be disappointed if Roy was to be his last fight. Also, in 2003, he said he'd want 'The Crown Jewels' to face Roy, due to the element of risk involved. When Roy was prime, Joe was defending his WBO SMW title in Britain, against mainly substandard opposition. So it wasn't the same at all. It was a joke clowning a 40 year old guy, who he'd never have fought anywhere near his prime. It was a joke clowning a 40 year old guy, who he'd repeatedly said was shot. In actual fact, it was pathetic. Because Joe would never have dared to have done such a thing to a prime Roy. He didn't want 'The Crown Jewels' to fight him in 2008, because there was NO element of risk involved at that point. Glen Johnson had destroyed him FOUR years earlier. Funny how Joe avoided the U.S. and LHW earlier in his career, due a fear of flying, but it was overcome in 2008. Ha! I couldn't care less about their rematch in 2010, and nobody else did either. It was about as relevant as the fight against Calzaghe in 2008.
Correction. I said Hopkins turned down a fight in 1998 where Jones ended up fighting Grant. It was Rocchigiani that did. Or that he wanted more money then what HBO thought was reasonable.
That is the whole point. People were NOT prepared to shell out good money to see Jones in fights. Mayweather love or hate him was one half of the biggest PPV fight EVER, and gets more sales than Jones ever did. Hence he gets those ridiculously high purses. Even HBO were complaining about the money Jones wanted to fight the kind of C grade fighters he fought.
That is easy. Steward wanted no part of Mike for his boy, which is why the Jamaican left the Kronk after Steward reneged on his promise that Mike would get Hearns after the Duran fight. Mike can take Tomm'ys shots, but no way Tommy can take those body shots for too long, those spindly legs would see him buckled up after 5 rounds.
Yeah, what is up with Jones? It was clearly such a great era .. middleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight ... such great talent and depth. Sure, Jones went UP two divisions (after starting at '54) but what does that mean? Sure, he fought for a heavyweight title - but almost anyone starting at '54 can make that leap, right? He was a giant man after all. It is not like with his huge build and width that he could get back down to say .. 172 .. for a catch-weight fight in his late 30s. This is a guy ducking all challenges so he could be sure to still be fighting when he was 45 years old (the coward, with his calculated planning for the future - just disgusting). Surely he went up to LHW in late '96 to avoid the great talent at SMW and catch a weak spot at LHW while he could. Then he made that move up in '03 for that farce against Ruiz as he saw the threat developing at LHW. He was such an opportunist ... I mean, look at the division below his ... The physical deterioration that the great undefeated SMW WBO champ had to endure was nothing like what Jones could ever have imagined. The punishment from his EIGHT YEAR RUN of title fights against "massively talented" deterioration-causing opposition is just undeniable if not immeasurable. Definitely career-shortening stuff ... Guys like Hopkins, RJJ, Toney, need to take note that they were cherry pickers that avoided "physical deteriorating" fights and opponents and we can see right through their plots to elongate their careers so as to pick up easy paydays from 40-50 years of age. But back to pointing out the comparative of the bravery of other "greats" not gifted to the pantheon as they faced real competition from the same relative era to really juxtapose how unique RJJ's "cowardness" was ... Sure nine of the following fights were in Cardiff ... but an examination of these guy's careers makes it clear that they were quite the challenge. There is no doubt that RJJ could have simply remained at 168 - but he knew that the division was getting hot and left it to the two Europeans to take and face that real "deterioration factor" so as to preserve himself. From 10/12/97 through 03/03/06 these are the fighters that one long-reigning champ entered the ring with for title fights essentially at home for just about all of them: Branko Sobot Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra Robin Reid Rick Thornberry David Starie Omar Sheika Rickie Woodhall Mario Veit Will McIntyre Charles Brewer Miguel Angel Jimenez Tocker Pudwill Byron Mitchell Mger Mkrtchyan Kabary Salem Mario Veit Evans Ashira If you haven't watched every single one of these fights ... do so .. or, if you are unfamiliar with these fighter's ample abilities .. watch some of their other fights and examine their records. You'll get an eye-opening experience then come back with an explanation of how your "deterioration factor" comes into play and why he isn't still boxing today - like that "coward" RJJ? ------------ "And personally, I do not think asking a guy to absorb John Ruiz or Antonio tarver is not asking for much. This content is protected " "I'm sure you agree on the deterioration factor if Jones had fought better competition. i mean the guy absorbed as little punishment as anyone." "Must just be an oddball coincidence the no hopers and massive underdogs got in the ring with him & the tough competition did not." ------------------- Yeah, it's below average to face a weak heavyweight in multiple WBA titlist John Ruiz, but it is a physical risk to face Evans Ashira - a middleweight - who fought one career fight at SMW - he moved up for that one fight - and actually ended his pro career back down at LIGHT middleweight. I think you are on to something with all that "deterioration factor" ... real sound posts.
Yep. McCallum all the way. In a firefight, he ends up like Jackson. In a boxing match, he ends up like Curry.