Roy Jones.

Fighting Ruiz and dominating him, should have silenced the critics.

What more did you want?

How many 34 year old LHW's move up to HW?


I don't understand why a fight with Hopkins should have happened without question in 2003?


The last time me and you debated, you told me you hadn't been able to make the point that you wished to make.

 

It didn't. It was exciting at first but it quickly became obvious Jones just moved up to fight the only relevant HW he could beat, and had no interest in further testing himself. A familiar pattern.

Archie Moore. Tomasz Adamek. Steve Cunningham. Probably more.

Why would you not want a fight between the two recognized best on the planet to happen?

I never said such a thing, I'm getting bored with having to correct you on this sort of ****. How can you debate me when you completely misquote me?

 

Any 34 year old LHW, who dominated a top 10 HW, should deserve credit.

Archie Moore and Adamek. That's two fighters that you've listed.

Who else?

Steve Cunningham never fought at LHW.

The fact that there isn't a huge list tells you that it was a good achievement.

I did want then to have a rematch, but not in 2003. It wasn't viable at all. Roy looked to fight other HW's after Ruiz, and when big money fights didn't materialise, he went back to LHW for Tarver.

What was Hopkins doing then? Fighting Hakker and Joppy, between two and four divisions below.

Which is why I'm surprised that you've said it should have happened without question.

Roy came down from 196 pounds, while Hopkins was at 160, showing no signs of any interest to move up to 175.

A 2003 fight never had a chance of happening.

 

You can't keep your argument straight. Your argument wasn't "deserve credit", it was "silence the critics."

Bulking up to challenge Ruiz for his paper title, isn't going to silence people that wanted to see Roy become undisputed at LHW or prove his P4P claim in the ring with another P4P fighter. Anyone who beats Ruiz however, deserves credit.

Well Toney was what...37 when he beat Ruiz? He just didn't jump straight from LHW.

I don't believe Roy looked to fight other HWs after Ruiz. And that is a reasonable suspicion.

Of course, the 2003 fight didn't happen because Jones decided to bulk up and fight one HW fight.

 

His easy domination of Ruiz should have brought him huge credit and silenced the critics.

He couldn't make the DM fight, so he went up to HW to beat a credible opponent.

Ruiz was awful to watch, but he was decent. He had decent wins, plus a 30 pound weight advantage.

Roy did look to fight other HW's, I've seen the proof. Most notably, excerpts from Jim Thomas's book, who was Evander's attorney. A fight was very close to being made.

But after feeling disrespected by King, Evander took the Toney fight instead, even though it was for less money with no title at stake.

Whether Roy had moved to HW or not, a fight with Hopkins wouldn't have happened anyway.

But Hopkins could have moved to LHW much sooner than he did.

 

"Should have" in your opinion. It did not.

Holyfield, when the IBF Byrd and WBO Champion Sanders were knocking on his door.

Wouldn't have happened because Roy wouldn't accept equal money with the P4P #1 who was coming off a huge win over Tito.

 

Nothing much to add.

What did the critics want him to do?

He'd have been criticised whatever he'd have done.

You can't satisfy some people.

Roy wanted huge money to remain at HW, because he was a LHW approaching 35.

The Sanders fight was dangerous and probably would have brought him less than he'd have got against Ruiz.

A Byrd fight wouldn't have brought huge money.

Holyfield, I've covered.

With regards to Hopkins, no he wouldn't have accepted 50-50, and again, why would he have?

Bernard had a great win over Tito, but other than that, he hadn't done anymore than Roy.

He didn't deserve 50-50, despite his Ring ranking.

Why aren't you asking why Bernard didn't accept Roy's terms?

 

Because a magazine that down played Jones win over Ruiz before the fight even took place, rated Hopkins higher in their mythical P4P rankings.

 

You were all about those ratings a few pages ago, arguing how many fighters that magazine rated were beaten by Roy, now you basically call them ratings worthless.

 

Nobody said Roy had to wait until he was in his 30s to take risky fights. His dad supposedly held him back from taking them when he was younger, so he waits, than becomes too old and wants more money. Again, it sounds like the man made his own bed. He will go down as an all time great, but the questions are going to linger.

Do you see people bringing up how many fighters Ali, Charles, Duran, and Robinson missed? Only Roy..why is that? He missed a lot, that's why.

 

I remember that, and you called it trivial, but it seems to matter to you now. Though I wasn't talking P4P rankings, which can be more subjective.

A fighter who has been one of, if not the best fighters in the world for 10 years isn't going to base conditions of a fight on the rankings in a magazine.

 

All rankings are subjective, you are free to agree or disagree with them.

Regardless of RING's ratings, you still had two regarded as the best of the world. Your stance is Roy was right to not give us, the fans, the superfight we wanted because 50/50 was not good enough for him?

 

I was a big Jones fan, and wanted to see him fight at heavyweight. I liked Hopkins, but Jones wasn't getting any younger and the talk about going to heavyweight had been going on for years (1995).

 

It's a joke that they briefly had Hopkins above him.

You can't just brush over the fact that Roy had beaten him either.

Bernard could have accepted the offer, or he could have at least moved to LHW to renegotiate.

 

Because time doesn't exist in a vacuum, and 9 years is a long time to hold a win over someone's head as if it was yesterday.