What fighters do you feel are unfairly criticized here?

The pure boxer types with like zero punching power at their disposal.

Guys like Ottke. Or guys like Erdei or Grigorian or a Jimmy Young even. Slappers like Calzaghe don't get a lot of love either.

 

I actually think that the quality of Ken Norton's chin gets somewhat under-rated by some on here.

It's assumed by some that because of his losses to Foreman, ****ey & Shavers he will lose to ANYONE with a half decent punch - you see it often with the fantasy match-ups here ""Norton vs any half decent puncher".

You often see Norton referred to as "chinny"on here. Delve deeper and I don't think that's quite the case. Fact is he lost to 3 top level ATG punchers, 2 when very past prime & 1 at the absolute peak of his powers, who had just similarly kayoed the ATG Frazier.

I look at Norton's figth versus Holmes & I don't see a chinny fighter; Nrotn went 39 rounds with Ali who barely made a dent in Norton - the same Ali who stopped iron chinned Foreman & Lyle and the likes of Frazier & Bonavena.

Norton chinny? Not for me.

 

People act like Holyfield didn't have a impressively great career.

 

I actually feel that Young might be the most overrated fighter on this board. You often get the feeling he was a HW Loche or Benitez when reading through what people say about him. Luckily there's film...

 

Garcia was essentially a big light heavyweight that Norton had 20 pounds on, and that fight could've been stopped sooner. Let's not pretend like Norton fought a laundry list of punchers and only the best of the best got to him.

Norton was chinny, didn't react well to punchers once he got hit (routinely gave up his mobility, went back on the ropes, or flat out froze). That, combined with that corny cross-arm defense he used that left him open to hooks, would've gotten him knocked out more had he fought more punchers.

It doesn't mean every single puncher would knock him out with 100% certainty, but it does mean he'd be extremely vulnerable to losing to the punchers that came along once he retired even if he was the better skilled, more textbook fighter.

 

:dealJimmy Young comes to mind first....but it's true of all the others you mention here too.

 

I respect Jimmy Young, but to some extent, he's a bit overrated.

 

Oddly enough, a few guys did get off the canvas to beat Shavers. Others took his punches and still won.

Norton was literally the only world class heavyweight Shavers knocked down and kept down in his career. That doesn't mean Earnie couldn't punch, but it does say something that there's not a longer list of fighters who were top 10 caliber that he was able to knock out- and it's not like he wasn't making contact.

It's not surprising Shaves knocked Norton out, because that's what a big puncher ought to do against someone who responds poorly to punchers.

 

No, I've explained why I think Norton has a bad chin and why he'd stand a high likelihood of being knocked out by the punchers of the 90's and 2000's. Had he fought more punchers of his contemporaries like Lyle and Frazier, they'd have probably knocked him out, too.

I was responding to your assertion that getting hit from Shavers meant a fighter was doomed. That would be correct, however, for those fighters with bad chins. Like Norton.

Let's recap:

1) He had a dodgy chin. Getting knocked out by Shavers, Foreman, and ****ey doesn't mean a fighter's packing glass. Going less than 4 combined rounds with a fighter of Norton's athleticism is a pretty big red flag.

2) He reacted poorly when he got hit.

3) He used a gimmicky cross-arm defense that wasn't going to work against punchers for someone with anything less than a granite chin.


Nice redirect to completely ignore Norton getting knocked out by a guy who'd be a modern day Light Heavyweight that he had 20 lbs on, though. But Garcia doesn't fit in to the "Norton only got stopped by historical-caliber heavyweight punchers" thesis, so I'm not surprised you left him out.

 

Same to you! I'd hate for friendly banter to get interpreted as being an attack, but sometimes these can read as being hostile instead of good ol' back and forth. Happy New Year back at ya! :good