Ali's Disappointing Second Reign ...

CJ,

Same could be said about plenty of fighters and baseball players. All of the WWII fighters who in fact stood up for the country. I don't want to go down the line on whether Ali was right or not. The country was very different in the 60's.

Louis, Robinson come to mind. Ted Williams as well on the baseball field. We apprieciate how good they all where.

 

This. Ken Norton's tactic of following but throwing no punches cost him several valuable rounds in the second and third Ali fights, and in the Holmes fight as well. That's what happened in the last round of the third Ali fight and that's what cost him the fight and the championship. I am still incredulous of the claim that Norton was told to take it easy in the last round because he had the fight sewn up. I remember Angelo Dundee, back in the 1960s saying "Never tell your fighter he's winning the fight. I always tell my guy ' You've got to win this last round'". That's what Ken needed to hear that night. You can be sure that's what Ali heard.

 

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This isn't a question of a few dissenting opinions. The American press was split roughly half and half, and almost all those who scored it for Norton did so by no more than 1 or 2 rounds, not by the clear margin you suggest. Milton Richman of the United Press, for instance, stated that, like the judges, he had it even after 14 rounds but that he gave the final round to Norton whereas the judges gave it to Ali.

The British press overwhelmingly scored the fight for Ali.

Let's not forget that what Ali was doing was unprecedented at that time. The only previous heavyweight champions to successfully defend the title at 33 or older were Johnson, Louis and Walcott (plus Willard if we're counting a 10 round no decision bout as a successful defence). None of them fought as regularly or racked up anything like as many defences.

And Ali's greatest assets were his speed, agility and reflexes - the first things a fighter loses as he ages. Yet he managed to have the most successful late-career title reign there had ever been.

 

What was unfair about his hiatus? He knew the penalty going into it.

NOI was not a religion. It was a criminal enterprise founded by criminals and ran by thugs. Clay was a fool to get involved in it and there is a price for being a fool.

 

It would have been nice for him to come in shape, and give Norton that fourth go(with would have probably resulted in defeat and retirement.), But he did alright, despite a lot of the controversy.

 

I always feel Ali lost a certain mental edge after Foreman. He was a machine in the 60's. Always focused & always in shape. After 74, Ali became increasingly an entertainer. He always had a sense of humor but now it was almost what defined him. No intimidating stares. Now he just bites his lip or rubs your head (Shavers). I think he'd climbed the mountain again & was just satisfied to have fun. He talked trash to psyche opponents earlier. Now he clowned to entertain the crowd.

It wasn't until 76 that he showed real deterioration. He trained for Norton but he often looked lethargic. At times he has that drained look he showed against Holmes. I haven't watched that one in awhile but I could go either way. That fight though would be the first where he took more punishment than he dished out. Taking punishment became one of his skills sadly.

 

it was a good run, with the only problem being the shockingly sharp downwards trajectory from 76 onwards. kinda shameful, but when the best fall, they fall hard.

Ali just didn't know when to stop, I think that's the downside of having such tremendous self belief.... you simply disbelieve that you should stop.

 

Muhammad Ali's second reign probably ranks in the top 5 heavyweight title reigns of all time. the frequency in which he met top contenders and Hall of Famers is pretty damn impressive. there's a breed a boxing fan that would much rather tear a great fighter down and appreciate what they are seeing. It is their loss. Yes there were some controversial decisions and close fights but there weren't outright robberies. They were the dramas that put butts in seats in the focused attention on the sport seldom equaled since.

No one's going to argue that he didn't hang on too long, but that does not obliterate his accomplishments after a three and a half year ban.

Anubis- nice job addressing some of the criticisms, I don't know how opensome people are to the facts once their mind is made up.

As WvBoxer alluded to after everything that he accomplished and all of thecarrots were being dangled in front of him it's not surprising that he lost a bit of his edge.

 

Yes,he should have retired after '75. He was never the same after that, but still pulled it out against a prime Norton in their rubber match. Even though I saw Ken as winning that one,it was close enough.

 

First, it wasn't that bad a reign; he fought everyone he was supposed to. We should be so lucky today, no?

Second, what seems to be getting lost in the shuffle here is that with the win over Foreman, Ali became an instant hero and bigger than life character. Not that he wasn't already the biggest thing in boxing ever, but he really reached new heights of fame and adoration in regaining the title. He was suddenly in even higher demand, and Ali and company were now determined to milk everything they could out of the show. Therefore, it ceased to be about just boxing anymore.......it was the whole "showbiz" thing all of a sudden, and it seemed he was more in the mindset of giving performances than anything.

That's not to belittle his performances against Frazier or Norton or having to dig deep against Shavers, those guys didn't care about a show. They were there to win, but a lot of the rest of the time he was playing a part. Seems to me, anyway..........

 

I agree with that all right - if this was a thread about the disappointing last year and a bit of Ali's second reign I wouldn't have argued. Ali should have stuck to his decision to retire after Norton, though with the bill for his divorce looming and millions of dollars on offer for a defence against Alfredo Evangelista, it's hard to blame him for yielding to temptation.

 

Foreman should have retired after Moorer. It's hard to walk away when you work so hard to get on top & are beloved by millions.

 

I think his second reign was disappointing in terms of his performance in questionable wins, and physique and lack of preparation/effort

But in terms of wins against solid opponents, it was actually quite good. And you also have to give him a lot of credit for being active and fighting quality opponents rather than ducking every tough fight.


Lyle, Frazier, Young, Norton, Shavers ... those would rank among the best wins for most heavyweight champions

 

A little irked that despite many ringsiders, 3 well regarded judges, the a.p., upi and the wws ppanel all scoring Ali-Norton 3 by 1 pt either way or a draw, some still hold they were all wrong and Norton was robbed. Otherwise agree with the postings on this one.