Roy Jones.

Right, tell me what fights after Toney, would have defined Roy's greatness?

Michael Nunn at 35? Who lost to Roch? Would he have gotten credit? Would that have defined his greatness?

Nigel Benn? Who shortly after beating Gerald, lost to Malinga and Collins?

Steve Collins? A guy who lost every time he stepped up, before narrowly beating a past his best Eubank and then a shot Benn?

Dariusz? Would beating Dariusz have catapulted him into superstar*om? Dariusz was a good fighter, but he hadn't beaten any outstanding fighters.

Who else?

Liles? Who wouldn't take the fight?

Eubank? Who had no interest in fighting Roy while he was at SMW?

Seriously, who?

Gerald?

Who could Roy have beaten, out of the guys he missed, that would have defined his greatness?

Calzaghe wasn't on the scene when Roy was peak.

So who?

Tell me.


Bernard has some great wins on his resume. Tito was probably the best. But Oscar had no business whatsoever at MW. Winky was a JMW. Pavlik was a MW. Was Taylor better than a guy like Toney? Bernard fought big names. But the reality is, he didn't have better wins on his resume than Roy. He just has superior longevity.

Roy also fought Tarver before Bernard and went on to fight Calzaghe. Along with a top 5 HW in Ruiz, etc.


Roy can be measured by what he actually achieved.


No, he didn't beat Bernard again, because everyone apart from you, knows that Bernard never had any real intentions of making the fight, back when it mattered.

 

Business wise absolutely! It secured Hopkins' future, so in a way it may be his biggest win...

Resume though, it doesn't do a lot for me, considering the circumstances. Trinidad was a much better win.

 

Stop embarrassing yourself with your blinkered opinions.

If Roy had stayed at MW and not dropped his IBF to fight Toney, where would that have left Bernard exactly?

I'll tell you.

The great MW title defences wouldn't have existed.

Also, why don't you take a look at those defences. Apart from a small handful of fighters, Bernard's opposition was poor at MW.

Meanwhile, Roy was trying to secure Benn and Liles fights.

When they didn't materialise, he went up to LHW, while Bernard remained at MW.

I'm seriously losing patience with you.

I have zero respect for you as a poster.

You're so biased.

Roy was showboating and belt collecting, while Bernard was doing what?

Defending Roy's old belt, again, against mainly average opposition.

You want to talk about being stubborn? Nobody was more stubborn than Bernard.

Bernard wanted to be compensated for moving up?

But Roy didn't for moving down?

Roy didn't really fight at HW? atsch

A 226 pound HW, was tailor made for a 34 year old LHW who'd had 50 fights? atsch

Where is Roy's resume? atsch

You are absolutely clueless!

 

He sucked at making fights?


http://youtu.be/4TPjvtASn0c

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=2112

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.sport.boxing/jklKOOQYXrU/eL9o-sWYjEsJ

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/paul-upham/jacobs-rejects-kohls-jones-michalczewski-claim

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=16185778

 

It is uncommon, especially in the modern era.

Also, Roy started out at JMW and MW.

So beating Oscar who'd lost to Sturm, was a better win than dominating a 226 pound HW after 50 fights?

 

boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/9811/two.htm

 

:good

I could probably find another ten links if I had the patience.

Keep them coming though mate.

I've enjoyed reading yours.

I haven't seen some of them for ages.

Keep finding them, and then we'll put them altogether.

No doubt Mongoose will completely disregard them, while questioning Roy's resume at the same time.

atsch

 

Supposedly those fights were when Hopkins was a kid before prison.

These are fair points, but my whole point was that Jones' doesn't have the fights, and there is far more guesswork in regards to his ability than other all time greats. Not who is too blame, that is more subjective, and naturally Jones fans are going to continuously point the finger at everyone else.

I appreciate your posts, you have been patient and respectful, and really the only person worth debating with on the matter.

 

Oscar is a polarizing fighter, I see him in a more positive light, I respect that.

 

Rocc was out of the ring for two years over this mess. Again, this is a case of Jones making his own bed. It was Jones' promoter who called off the bout when a deal was finally agreed to. Perhaps rightfully, perhaps not, but that isn't the point.


In early 1998, the WBC light heavyweight title was relinquished by Roy Jones Jr., who planned to move up to heavyweight. Jones signed to fight former heavyweight champion James (Buster) Douglas for the International Boxing Association heavyweight title on May 2, 1998 in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
On March 21, 1998, WBC #1 contender Michael Nunn fought #2 contender Graciano Rocchigiani for the vacant light heavyweight title. Rocchigiani won by a split decision and was declared the new champion.
Meanwhile, Jones changed his mind and backed out of the Douglas fight. His father convinced him to stay at light heavyweight, telling him he was "risking his life" by fighting Douglas.
In June 1998, the WBC stated that Jones was the "champion in recess" and Rocchigiani was the "interim" champion. The WBC said its references in promotions and contracts to the Rocchigiani-Nunn fight as a championship bout, and to Rocchigiani as the champion, had been typographical errors.
Jones and Rocchigiani were scheduled to fight in Biloxi, Mississippi on November 6, 1999. However, promoter Murad Muhammad called off the bout because Rocchigiani didn't attend a press conference in New York. Muhammad said he couldn't promote a bout with Rocchigiani if he didn't cooperate. The WBC subsequently stripped Rocchigiani outright.
Rocchigiani sued the WBC and was awarded $31 million in lost earnings and other damages by a New York court in April 2003. The court also retroactively restored Rocchigiani’s official WBC light heavyweight championship status, but only from March 28, 1998 (when he defeated Nunn) to April 15, 2000 (when he lost to Dariusz Michalczewski).
The WBC filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after the judgement. A year later, the WBC announced they planned to file for chapter 7 bankruptcy, which usually leads to the liquidation of a company. They withdrew plans to file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy when they reached an agreement with Rocchigiani in August 2004. Terms were not disclosed.

 

Your acting like a god damn child, I really can't be bothered with your posts anymore. I'll continue with the other guys.

 

Acting like a child, for calling you out on your biased BS?

Right.

If I were you, I'd go an re read your posts.

They're ridiculous.

Crediting Bernard for his MW run, while accusing Roy of belt collecting etc?

Completely dismissing Roy's win at HW?

Implying that Roy ducked everyone, and then instantly dismissing any link that proves otherwise?

Claiming he sucked at making big fights?

Holding him responsible for the Hopkins rematch not happening sooner?

The only reason you don't wish to continue this debate with me, is because you are being absolutely owned by facts and logic.

You have no credibility whatsoever.

 

I couldn't stand the hype he got, or I thought he was getting when fighting at such low weights. I understand that was all part of the plan, just didn't like it. So by the time he got to 147 I couldn't stand him.

I also loved Sweet Pea, and thought at the time he (Whitaker) did enough to win that fight. Haven't watched it again in years, maybe I was too biased back then.

After that fight, along with Jones DQ, ODLH moved to number 1 in the P4P rankings (Ring). More fuel for the fire. :fire:nut

 

:good

 

You got to respect Oscar for delivering the fights though. He fought everyone. Of course many were close.

I didn't like him much at the time either, I was rooting for Quartey but thought Oscar edged it and respected him after that.